Baikal TOZ-66 coach gun

Matt85 · February 18, 2010, 06:58:17 PM

hiya all, im new here and on the hunt for information. i recently purchased a Baikal TOZ-66 and i had a few questions about the gun that i cant seem to find answers to online.

1. it seems like the chambers and barrels are seperate pieces welded together, is this the case or am i just seeing things?
2. where might i be able to aqcuire parts for this shotgun? (assuming they can even be found)
3. whats the story behind this gun?

thank you
-Matt

PS: if i posted this in the wrong section i apologize

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · February 18, 2010, 07:55:18 PM

I have a TOZ66. Leave it long if its not cut yet. Mine is deadly on claybirds and knockdowns as it is.

I don't think the barrel & breach are joined by that line a couple of inches out. I'm not a gunsmith, but my impression is that the breach is milled, and then the barrel shanks are sweated into two holes bored to accept them. Think two layers of steel around the shells. I'm not sure of the history, but the Russians always had tough hunting firearms available for subsistence hunters and trappers. As for parts, here in Canada my gunsmith couldn't find parts, but was able to hand craft what he needed quite economically. They ain't brain rocketry.

Matt85 · February 18, 2010, 09:51:42 PM

Quote from: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on February 18, 2010, 07:55:18 PM
I have a TOZ66. Leave it long if its not cut yet. Mine is deadly on claybirds and knockdowns as it is.

I don't think the barrel & breach are joined by that line a couple of inches out. I'm not a gunsmith, but my impression is that the breach is milled, and then the barrel shanks are sweated into two holes bored to accept them. Think two layers of steel around the shells. I'm not sure of the history, but the Russians always had tough hunting firearms available for subsistence hunters and trappers. As for parts, here in Canada my gunsmith couldn't find parts, but was able to hand craft what he needed quite economically. They ain't brain rocketry.

thanks for the info!

im sure the barrels have been cut, they are 18.5". what is the stock barrel length on these guns?

-Matt

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · February 19, 2010, 09:14:27 AM

TRAKTOR GIRL has 28 inch barrels. 40 years ago I had one in 20 gauge, and it was the same, as I recall.

Chance · February 19, 2010, 09:30:30 AM

Baikal currently supply their Coach Gun with 20" barrels.

Chance

Stillwater · February 19, 2010, 09:41:09 PM

Quote from: Chance on February 19, 2010, 09:30:30 AM
Baikal currently supply their Coach Gun with 20" barrels.

Chance

My TOZ 66 has 20 inch barrels, as does my much more refined CZ SXS.

Bill

Matt85 · February 20, 2010, 07:23:02 AM

Quote from: Stillwater on February 19, 2010, 09:41:09 PM
My TOZ 66 has 20 inch barrels, as does my much more refined CZ SXS.

Bill

i really want one of those CZ coach guns but i just cant swing $800 at the moment.

-Matt

WaddWatsonEllis · February 20, 2010, 08:16:41 AM

Baikal Shotguns ...

I have a Baikal Bounty Hunter (Single Trigger) that I bought used.

I took it to my gunsmith who found that it had been 'improved' by a person whose 'improvements' were, according to my gunsmith, 'butchered'.

My gunsmith went to EAA three times, each getting a person who swore that the previous person did not understand his needs, and would send seers for the single trigger model. So my gunsmith ended up with three sets of seers (for a double trigger model) that did not work. So he is having a friend weld up some extra metal on the old seers, and will then file them down to fit.

EAA is worse than useless ... there are about seven cues one must work through in order to talk to a real person. Add to this that they no longer handle the Bounty Hunter series (it is now being imported as a Model 220 Spartan by Remington). When Remington was asked to help with a Baikal, I was given the 800 number for EAA faster than one can pass a hot potato.

The Canadian supplier for Baikal said that the translation of the gun in its manual was labored, and to send the exact number from the exploded diagram and they wourld 'try' to get the parts needed.

Don't know if the problem is the same with the coach gun, but I think your gunsmith is going the right route by just making the part himself ... it will probably be quicker, less costly and less frustrating.

It is really a shame, cause this is a REALLY nice shotgun.

BTW, my gunsmith also tried to get the parts from several aftermarket dealers, including Dixie Gun Works ....

Stillwater · February 21, 2010, 12:46:01 AM

Quote from: Matt85 on February 20, 2010, 07:23:02 AM
i really want one of those CZ coach guns but i just cant swing $800 at the moment.

-Matt

If you get a chance to get the CZ Coach Gun, by all means get it.

The TOZ-66 has outside hammers like the CZ does. However, the similiarty ends there. Both shotguns are supposed to be replicas of the Colt 1878 Coach Gun...

The TOZ-66 is built to do a job, and it looks like it is substantial enough, and strong enough, to hunt the African Big 5 with. But it is without a single redeeming feature, when compared to the CZ...

The TOZ-66 has hammer springs from hell. They are so strong, you could rupture yourself just by cocking the hammers.

The CZ on the other hand feels like, and handles like, a fly rod compared to the TOZ-66, which handles like a cane fishing pole.

Bill

WaddWatsonEllis · February 21, 2010, 01:07:12 AM

I also have a Cap Coyote jeweled Morinco Model 87.

The one good thing about all my troubles with my Bounty Hunter is that it has forced me to become more comfortable with the Model '87 ...

Now if could just get it to expel that first shell in a hurry without having the shell go vertical and then catch the brass end of the spent shell in the action rather than loading the next live shell ...

But I imagine it is just a matter of practice ...

Stillwater · February 21, 2010, 08:36:24 PM

Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on February 21, 2010, 01:07:12 AM
I also have a Cap Coyote jeweled Morinco Model 87.

The one good thing about all my troubles with my Bounty Hunter is that it has forced me to become more comfortable with the Model '87 ...

Now if could just get it to expel that first shell in a hurry without having the shell go vertical and then catch the brass end of the spent shell in the action rather than loading the next live shell ...

But I imagine it is just a matter of practice ...

Does the Norinco 1887 appear to be a well made firearm?

Bill

WaddWatsonEllis · February 21, 2010, 09:18:34 PM

The Norinco Model 1887 is tortuously linked to Cap Coyote.

It was Cap that went to China and got them to fix most of the more glaring problems.

But I bought mine through Cap Coyote and he 'smithed mine to an inch of its life. Then his son put a laser 'window pane' checkering on the pistol grip of the stock and forestock.

If I was gonna buy one, I would pay the extra money and wait the four to six months to get one like this with all the kinks out of it.

Or you can buy one cheap, and then send it to a 'smith who may or may not be familiar with them, and wait the four or five months to get it back ... and you still have a gun whose worth is not that of all the repairs placed on it, or the resale value of having one of the 'custom' jobs.... not to mention paying for a 'smith to learn all about what Cap already knows ....

jjmontana9 · March 13, 2010, 07:01:34 AM

Does any know where I can find hammer springs for a Toz-66. I had a local gunsmith lighten the hammer pull and not the right hammer does not strike the primer hard enough on the right side. So I am looking for new hammer springs. Thanks for your help.
Marshal JJ Montana

WaddWatsonEllis · March 13, 2010, 08:22:36 AM

I have had far less than satisfactory service (?) from EAA ... my advice about them; fuggetaboutit!

They sent my 'smith the wrong seers .... three times in a row!

You might have better success dealing directly with Baikal Canada ... here is their contact numbers:

http://www.baikalcanada.com/contact.htm

RRio · March 13, 2010, 07:17:09 PM

Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on March 13, 2010, 08:22:36 AM
I have had far less than satisfactory service (?) from EAA ... my advice about them; fuggetaboutit!

They sent my 'smith the wrong seers .... three times in a row!

You might have better success dealing directly with Baikal Canada ... here is their contact numbers:

http://www.baikalcanada.com/contact.htm

I tried to talk to EAA about the hammers on my BH II at the NRA convention last year. The impression they gave me was, they were punks just wanting to sell their side-ways cap shooters. Because of them, I won't ever spend money on an EAA again.

WaddWatsonEllis · March 13, 2010, 10:55:47 PM

My sentiments too ... I don't know wether it is my instincts, or just .... I dunno.

But EAA is acting like a business in it's death rolls ... extremely poor customer service, loosing a cash flow in the case of lost Baikal sales ...

But I could quite possibly be wrong ...

jjmontana9 · March 14, 2010, 11:02:33 AM

I called EAA this past summer and they were no help at all. I called brownells and talked with one of their gunsmiths and he said they could not help , but referred me to a list of gunsmiths that could make a springs for me.
Marshal JJ Montana

WaddWatsonEllis · March 14, 2010, 11:12:52 AM

I believe EAA is a lost cause, not even worth the energy to contact them.

I think us owners of Baikal Bounty Hunters have two choices:

1.) Have a really good gunsmith try to manufacture the parts, or

2.) Try to get a hold of a Remington 220 exploded parts diagram and then order from Remington (Telling them that you have a Remington) ... and hope that the parts are the same. IF this doesn't work, refer to #1...

BTW, does anyone know of a gunsmith that specializes in Baikal SXS shotguns?

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · March 19, 2010, 10:11:33 AM

I emailed Baikal Canada specifically about parts for the TOZ66. Here is the response;

"We do not carry parts for this model."

Zhana Levin
Customer Relations Manager
IZH Impex Inc.
Tel.416-736-9917 Fax:416-665-8459
www.baikalcanada.com

I did not ask if parts for newer guns would fit, or could be adapted.

P.S; I have made the request to Baikal Canada.

doubs43 · March 19, 2010, 10:48:28 AM

Here is the email address for the factory that makes Baikal shotguns in Russia: baikal@baikalinc.ru

I don't know what their response will be but it surely can't hurt to ask if you can buy parts directly from them.

The model you need to ask about appears to be either IZH-43K or IZH-43KH. They are the hammer guns illustrated on their web site at: http://www.baikaldeluxe.com/company.php Then look under "Products".