Feed Issue on 1873

[Johnny Cicero]

Hello all,

At the range today, my Cimarron 1873 (Evil Roy) got jammed with a round that wouldn't load into the barrel. The carrier picked up the round, but it wouldn't load it all the way. I was unable to clear it at the range, so I brought it home and had to remove all the unfired rounds from the feed tube.

I see no obstructions in the barrel and even an empty (fired) brass won't go all the way into the barrel. About a 1/4 inch remains exposed.

This was only my second time firing the rifle. My last trip to the range was uneventful and today I only got 4 round down range before this problem.

Please excuse my lack of technical terms as I'm new to firearms.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Cicero

[Deadeye Dick]

JC,
You may have had a head separation. This is where the backend of the case breaks off of the front portion. This leaves the front end lodged in the chamber. You may want to look closely at the chamber to see if it looks like the front end of a case is stuck in there. If so, try to dislodge it by pushing a tight fitting brass brush down the barrel from the muzzle end. Often times it doesn't take much to dislodge it.
If this is the problem you will want to have your headspace checked to be sure you don't have too much.
I'm sure some of the other pard's will have some ideas too.
Good luck,
Deadeye Dick

[Goody]

I think Deadeye is probably right, a seperated case. If the brass brush doesn't work I have had good luck slugging the bore. Take soft lead ball or an unfired bullet, just the bullet. The lead ball should be slightly larger than bore size. If this is a 357 gun, use a 36 caliber round ball. For a 44 or 45 I have used .455 round ball. Using a wooden dowel or aluminium rod drive them from the muzzle end into the bore, being carefull not to damage the rifling at the muzzle. As it clears the chamber ot will usually bring the case out with it.

[Johnny Cicero]

Thanks, guys.

After reading your posts, I took a closer look and now I can see some brass in the barrel. I've tried all the brushes I have, but it didn't work. As I'm not reloading yet, I don't have any lead here. Perhaps I will check Bass Pro for small quantities.

Also, how common is this? Should I be worried about the brand of factory loads I was using (American Eagle)?

Thanks again,
Cicero

[Johnny Cicero]

If this is the problem you will want to have your headspace checked to be sure you don't have too much.

Exactly what does this mean? Headspace on the rifle or while reloading? Just wanted to clarify that I was using factory loads.

Thanks,
Cicero

[Dirty Brass]

As I understand it, headspace is the chamber distance in the breech that is determined by how far (or close) the barrel is tightened to where the bolt engages and locks up. Too much headspace leads to the case separation you experienced. This is generally set at the factory, but in your case it may have been adjusted improperly, OR your barrel may be loose (unlikely).

[Deadeye Dick]

JC,

I recommend you do a search on headspace in the Gunsmithing Forum. There's a lot of good information on headspace there. In one of the topics Pettifogger said this about the headspace  for the 1873 Uberti:

 "The headspace is supposed to be .060".  That's the distance from the front of the bolt to the back of the barrel (basically the thickness of the cartridge rim).  There's two ways to correct headspace on a 73.  Set the barrel back (expensive and not really an option for most people or necessary on a 73) or change the links.  Most of the kit makers have two or three links with different specs to correct headspace.".

Also, I think another thing that could have happened is the trigger could have been pulled before the lever and bolt were completely closed. There is a safety button at the bottom of the stock where the lever contacts that is supposed to keep the rifle from firing until the lever is pressed up against it. Sometimes this safety button is taken out or may be malfunctioning. In any case if I were you and just getting into firearms, I would take my 73 to a competent gunsmith and have it checked out. Out of headspace firearms or malfunctioning safetys are dangerous.

Deadeye Dick

[Johnny Cicero]

Thanks again. I was able to get a .36 round ball down the barrel and that extracted the broken brass.

The lever safety works fine (tested it while empty, of course). But I will take your advice and have a gunsmith check it out. Hope Cimarron's Evil Roy rifle doesn't need any additional work....wife is going to be unhappy.....

-Cicero

[Coffinmaker]

Surprisingly, case/case head separation is not all that uncommon.  Normally it is not a result of a head space issue.  Usually it's just a weak spot in the brass case.
Bad head space can be a problem and can lead lead to head separation but that take a LOT of excess head space.  Uberti rifles have as a matter of rule, head space issues.  Usually not show stoppers.  Large bore Uberti guns usually suffer excess head space and the small bore guns too little.
Excess head space take a set of longer links to resolve which usually means a short stroke kit.  Too little can often be resolved by facing the Breach Block (bolt).

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

"Complete circumfrential rupture",,,,,that is the correct term for this.
Likely a problem with the cartridge brass used. At first blush, I would not attribute this to the rifle.

Regards,
Hotgun

[Johnny Cicero]

Has anyone seen this problem with factory loads? I see a lot of warnings about it happening with re-used brass, but not sure about "new" stuff.

[Dirty Brass]

I'm not sure, but isn't American Eagle ammunition reloaded ammo? That could explain a weak case...

[Coffinmaker]

Yes, it has and does happen with brand new factory ammunition and brand new un-fired cases.  It isn't all that common with new ammo, but does occur.  It's all tied to the extrusion process for forming finished cases.  It isn't "if" it's going to happen to a shooter, it's when.  If you shoot a bunch, you'll run into it.
The key, is not to try and chamber the next round hard enough that you jam the remaining case section so tight that you need my services to get it out.

Coffinmaker

[Johnny Cicero]

The key, is not to try and chamber the next round hard enough that you jam the remaining case section so tight that you need my services to get it out.

Coffinmaker

Yeah, well, where were you a few days ago? No problem....I was able to "slug" the barrel as was suggested above. And tomorrow, I'm dropping it off with Cody Conagher (home of the Cody-Matic). I'll have him git it a once over to put my mind at ease. Plus, he's going to do an action job on my SxS.

-Cicero

[rifle]

You can buy headspace gauges from Brownells right? That would be a way for someone to check the headspace themselves. That go-no go type plug gauge?

[Coffinmaker]

Go - No Go gauges are "OK."  But, when you start setting a rifle up or optimum performance, which includes a lot of rubbin and buffin and then completely reworking the springs to get the rifle to run real light. 
I use a special re-ground set of automotive feeler gauges I fit between the Breach Block (bolt) and the case head.  I like .004 or less.

Coffinmaker 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I have a different problem that has arisen only twice.

The first time the lever was 90 degrees to the rifle (i.e. the action was open). When I loaded the first cartridge, it went backwards and under the carrier so that it would not load another shell, nor would allow the first cartridge to be removed without opening up the access plate and pulling it out.

The second time, I am not sure that the lever and action were in the 'open' position when I started loading.  When I loaded the first shell, the carrier tried to load the first round, but it hit the top of the chamber so hard that it dented the lead in the bullet...

Again, it would not release the bullet so it could go in the chamber, nor would it allow the cartridge to be ejected. Again, the plate had to be removed to extricate the cartridge.

Since this was the first shot of the day, I figured the 'Big Guy' was telling me I should not be shooting ... and quit the day right there ...

But when I took it home, I ran a group of 10 snap caps through it without problem.

So tomorrow is the first shoot, so we will see how it works ...

BTW, this is a Uberti Trapper in .45 cal., almost brand new, with two shoots under its belt ...

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Update:

I went out and shot it with my normal Schofield cowboy reloads ... and the gun is deadly ... accurate and fast ... I was using brand new .45 'long' Colt ammo when it jammed, so I am unsure why it happened ... unless the 'Big Guy' really was behind it .... but I took it home and ran 10 .45 'Long' Colt and 10 .45 Schofield snap caps through it and it went 'like buttah'.

And then this month, I shot six stages with it (i.e. 60 rounds ) without a hitch ...

So go figure ...

[Qball]

Does these feeding problem occure in all caliber figurations?
I'm looking to buy a Uberti -73 in .44-40
( but this makes me think twice. )

Thankful you for your thoughts.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Q-ball,

I have only had that one misfeed ... it eats .45 Colt and .45 Schofield with relish. I think that the horizontal feed of the Model '73 is actually kinder to ammo than the later angled feeds.

As I said in my previous quotes, I took the weapon home, and jacked 10 snap caps of both .45 LC and .45 Schofield easily.

I can only figure that that round I fired at the shoot was a mistake and with a not quite seated bullet (i.e. too long).

I took it to my next shoot (without even bringing my backup Model 94) and it performed without a hickup.

If I remember right, the 44-40 was the grandparent of the .44 Magnum. The 1873 does not like hot loads I am told; I am sure someone else with more gunsmithing experience than me will chime right in about the 44-40 in the 1873....