I'm in a bind....

[Loophole LaRue]

Went to the range Sunday to play with the Henry.

Fired off 40 rounds of Winchester Cowboy loads - my usual ammo - no problem.

Switched over to some Mag Tech .45 Colts - still cowboy loads.

After 20 rounds, jammed.  No shells stuck - lever up, would not lower.  Finally determined that if I pushed down on the lifter (which was stuck in the up position) with my finger, I could finish opening with the lever, and then close the action - but stuck again.

To me, it looks like I;m just plain gummed up with soot - much blacker and dirtier than usual after 60 rounds.  Empty Mag Tech casings much blacker on the outside, too.

I'll clean the rifle tonight, and expect that it will work fine after.

Anybody else having trouble with this Mag Tech (blue box) ammo?  Just a dirtier round?


Thanks


LL

[litl rooster]

I haven't shot but a couple boxes of any kind of store bought thru my Henry, however I have used the Mag TecH cause I am still reloading the brass.  With Black Powder. The only trouble I have had is with the origonal lifter springs

Did you pull the side plates off and clean and inspect? Have you fired it since you have cleaned it?

[Buck Stinson]

I would doubt that the powder residue would cause the problem.  Even with black powder, I can shoot 200 rounds thru my .44-40 Henry without any problem in working the action.   I always reload, so I'm not at all familiar with Mag-Tech and taking it for granted that these are smokeless loads?  My Henry is one of the very first ever produced and brought into this country by Uberti.   It was made for and shipped to Allen Firearms in Santa Fe, N.M. around 24 years ago.  I bought it new at that time.  I don't know what info is shipped with these guns now, but back then there was a tag included in the box that said, "NOT WARRANTED OR INTENDED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER."  Well, by that time I had been reloading .44-40 ammo since I was 11 years old and knew the ins and outs of that caliber like no other.  One thing I NEVER did was shoot someone elses reloads.  I took my brand new Henry out in the hills with a box of blackpowder ammunition that I had reloaded for an original 1873 Winchester and an old 1st generation Colt SA.  I shot off about half the box without any problems what so ever.  Then I loaded the tube with 5 rounds of smokeless reloads a friend had given me.  (I broke my own rule.)  I was told these were mild handloads that had been used in his original '73.  The first three rounds seemed fine, the fourth seemed a bit tight and on the fifth round, I couldn't open the action.  The smokeless rounds were fairly light loads, but the pressure had literally stretched the brass reciever to the point where the side plates had a 1/16th inch gap on the top corner at the front of the reciever and 1/16th inch gap on the bottom corner at the back of the reciever.   I was sick.  I took the gun home, removed the buttstock and completely stripped the reciever.  I then chucked it in my vise between two pieces of oak and using a brass rod 1/2" diameter and 6" long, I hammered on the inside of the reciever just in front of the hammer channel, while fitting the sideplates to see how far I had to go.  Finally, after about 20 minutes, the sideplates were again a perfect fit on each side.  I put the gun back together and the action worked as smooth as glass.  I put a very fine polish on the reciever with a sanding block and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and finished it up.  I still have the gun and have continued to shoot thousands of rounds thru it, without any further difficulty.  I SHOOT ONLY BLACKPOWDER.

[Montana Slim]

Light 45 Colt loads can have a lot of blowback. It's probably just dirty.
But, does this rilfe have an action job, lighten springs, etc.?

Lightening the carrier lifter springs is not a good idea (JMHO).

A used 66 carbine I picked up needed to have some action work corrected, which included replacing the carrier lifter / return srpings.
Make sure the two screws on the bottom of your reciever are snug.

Regards,
Slim
(who prefers reliability above all else)

[pony express]

I never had any problem like that with any smokeless loads like that in my '66, including a box of mag tech I bought one time(match next day, was out of some component or another to reload) Now my 777 loads, they tend to do that. Have to keep a can of Ballistol handy, after the first couple of stages.

[Major 2]

I have an Allen Arms  I bought NIB in 1980, then only 44/40 was available ( there had been a 44 RF but it was in limited numbers and no longer offered ) no such tag "NOT WARRANTED OR INTENDED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER." was included.
In fact, mine suggested factory ammunition only.
I did cast my own lead for Cap & Ball and my Sharps, but did not then nor now reload. I always used facrory smokeless 44/40.
I sold the gun in 89 or so having shot many around through, it to a friend , it was used main match gun by my Friend.
He used Black Hills & UltraMax
He regulated it to a backup a few years ago when he bought a Yellowboy iin 38 (all his CAS guns are now 38 )
I just traded back for it ( I have a box of UltraMax he gave me with it )... it's 30 years old, has seen several thousand rounds and countless BP blanks as a reenactor gun.
Function is fine and smooth , though it has an adged handled look , no issues with fit.

[Coffinmaker]

Loophole,

The problem you describe is not at all uncommon with .45 Colt ammunition.  Some powders are much dirtier than others and will gum up quickly. 
The .45 Colt round does not generate enough pressure to expand the case and seal the chamber, therefore the blow back of gun gas is a real problem.  The problem has been discussed at length on this and other forums and there is no real fix.  Blow back has been minimized by some shooters but not eliminated.  Uberti rifles usually have a very generous chamber which also contributes to the problem. 
As an aside, if your reloading, Trail Boss powder does not like petroleum based lubricants and will get gummy very quickly.  Your best bet is to keep a small container of Break Free in your possibles bag and give the front of the carrier block an occasional squirt.
A contributing factor is when the screws for the lever side springs have been "adjusted" to provide a lighter lever throw.  The side spring screws are not intended to be "backed off" and must be kept tight.  For a lighter action, the springs must be adjusted and lighter springs will also contribute to the problem in a stock rifle.  Uberti does not build the rifle with "positive slam down" for the carrier block and the only thing that powers the block down is the spring.  When the rifle gets gummy, the spring cannot overcome the drag of the carbon fouling at the front of the carrier so it jams.  Your local gun plumber should be able to add positive slam down to the carrier block arm, if he/she is familiar with Toggle Link rifles.
Other than adding positive slam down or a little squirter of Bread Free you just have to live with the problem.  All the current short stroke kits have positive slam down built in to the designs.

Coffinmaker

[pony express]

Other than adding positive slam down or a little squirter of Bread Free you just have to live with the problem.  All the current short stroke kits have positive slam down built in to the designs.

Coffinmaker

I'm not interested in any short stroke kit, but this "positive slam down" sounds like a great idea. Is it available on a standard action? Is it a difficult modification?

[will52100]

Don't know about the short stroke "slam down", but the way I fixed mine, it's a 45 colt and after a couple hundred rounds would gum the carrier up, was to shave a couple thou off the side of the carrier with a disk sander and polished.  I can go 3-400 rounds without stoping now. I've tried anealing(works great but is time consuming), neck sizing, ect, and finaly just setled on a full load of black powder and a 250 grain bullet and that with the slightly loosened carrier pretty much solved the problem.  The carrier on most of the ones I've seen were too tight from the factory.  I saw a pard have the same problem with his henry and he'd never shot anything but smokless factory through it.  A good cleaning will help, but if the carrier is too tight, any blow by will start it too draging.  Just be carefull how much you take off the sides or you'll be buying a new carrier. 

The way I did it was to take a little off, polish and I did that every time I took it down for cleaning till I was satisfied with performance.  It could stand to have a little more taken off, but it works good as is.  Also a good lube with bore butter works wonders for keeping the fouling soft.

The real problem is that smokless cowboy loads will leak more gas by than warthog black powder, and the carbon fouling is harder than black powder fouling, and the carrier is a bit tight.

Also almost forgot to mention when you take the carrier out becareful of the spring screws, there in there tight and are kinda soft.  It didn't take long for me to strip one out.  I'd sugest getting american made replacements before even taking apart and swap them out.

[Coffinmaker]

Pony & Loophole,

Positive slam down is done by welding a button at the top of the Carrier Block Arm where the lever contacts the back flat of the arm to start the arm "down" as the lever closes.  The button has to be dressed down to time the carrier drop as the round is chambered, then the lever front face of the lever is in constant contact with the the carrier block arm all the way down.  Once this is achieved, the right side spring can be reduced as it's only purpose, once you have positive slam down, is to hold the carrier block "up" long enough for the breach block to strip and chamber the round.

Coffinmaker 

[Loophole LaRue]

Thanks for the info, all....

Until today, all my loads have been factory - and except for the offending Mag Techs, all Winchester Cowboy 250 gr.  Never a problem before.  The gun is stock - no mods.

I cleaned the gun after the original post - cycles fine now.  What struck me was that I had often fired more rounds between cleanings, with never a hiccup...I'll chalk this one up to a dirtier brand of powder, and avoid the Mag Techs.

I've just started reloading - we'll see how that goes.

LL

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Loophole

Where were you shooting? Do you belong to the Harvard club?

[Loophole LaRue]

Hey DJ....I was wondering when you would show up...yep, I'm a Haarvaard man......

LL

[kcub]

Per OP's suspicion, yes, Magtech is indeed very dirty I've noticed in any caliber.