38 spl+p vs. 38 spl

kflach · February 05, 2010, 08:43:21 PM

I know there's a difference in propellant between these two cartridges when they are new. However, if I'm reloading *used* cases with black powder can I mix 38 Spl+P cases with regular 38 Spl cases?

Shotgun Franklin · February 05, 2010, 09:18:45 PM

Yes, the difference is only in the load as it comes from the factory. Except for the head stamp there's no difference in the brass.

hellgate · February 05, 2010, 11:14:18 PM

I am of a different opinion. I have found the +P cases (including military headstamps that don't say +P) have the same case wall thickness as the .357 brass. I.E. the standard 38SPL brass is thinner. From a ballistic standpoint that is not a big deal but when you are shooting BP in the 38SPL you want to seal the chamber against blowback of fouling. The thicker brass does not seal as well as thinner brass that will expand better at lower pressures that BP produces. Sooooooooooo........... I don't use +P brass for any BP loadings because the action fouls more. I can tell the +P and mil spec brass is thicker because I have a revolver with very tight chambers and when I use .358 dia bullets the +P & mil spec brass is tighter to chamber. I tend to load up those cases for use in the occasional "lost brass" matches where you don't get to pick up your brass. That is, I consider it "throw away" brass but I am too cheap to do just that so I load it only when I know I won't get it back.

Shotgun Franklin · February 06, 2010, 04:35:47 PM

There is variation between makes of brass. The case wall of all Federal brass is thicker than Winchester as an example. Military is usually made to a different spec than other brass just because. It's possible for nearly any part of a case to vary slightly from maker to maker, Remington .45 Colt brass has a very slightly thicker rim than either W-W or Star Line. I set my press for W-W and it will only feed REM one round at a time. So you could compare a FED +P .38 to a W-W .38 and get a different reading/thickness.

Montana Slim · February 06, 2010, 05:49:48 PM

Quote from: kflach on February 05, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
I know there's a difference in propellant between these two cartridges when they are new. However, if I'm reloading *used* cases with black powder can I mix 38 Spl+P cases with regular 38 Spl cases?

Of course, the answer to your question is yes.....A full case of true gunpowder won't make any difference....but with much more style than the other stuff.

Regards,
Slim

Dick Dastardly · February 07, 2010, 07:39:07 AM

Weigh some. Brand for brand and see if it weighs more. If it does, there's your answer.

DD-DLoS

Wills Point Pete · February 08, 2010, 01:15:21 AM

Back when the .38 PlusP first came out one or two of the big manufacturers made the cartridge cases of the PlusP rounds with heavier walls. This didn't last all that long and today the only difference is the headstamps. For main match ammo, don't worry about it, mix and match at will. If I were, say, loading up ammo to shoot in a rifle at a hundred or more yards, though, I'd do all that extra work of segregating cases and trimming them, etc. Not one out of a hundred of us could prove the difference shooting revolvers, hand held at speed.

kflach · February 08, 2010, 04:14:59 PM

I'm using Cap & Ball for my revolver. These will only go through my levergun. However, I only use it for CAS, so I'm not worried about pinpoint accuracy at hundreds of yards. And I *only* use Holy Black (Goex FFFG ).

Wills Point Pete> There's a Wills Point here in North Texas. Are you from thereabouts? Do you happen to shoot with the Tyler Peacemakers? That's not far from the Texas Ten Horns either. Just curious...

pony express · February 08, 2010, 09:16:06 PM

I mostly just mix and match my cowboy brass, although I USED to seperate BP and smokeless loads in 38 by putting the BP in brass, and smokeless in nickle. But now I got a '66 in .45, so the old .38 Rossi doesn't get fed BP anymore. I did note the problem mentioned with some military .38 brass, it's a bit thicker. Not much problemwith light cowboy bullets, but when I used to load heavier bullets, seatin them deeper seemed to cause a bulge close to the base of the bullet. I guess there was some taper on the inside of those cases.

Montana Slim · February 08, 2010, 09:26:53 PM

I'd venture that buldging of the cartridge case has more to do with the chamber of the gun (Rifle or Carbine) than any other factor

Regards,
Slim

pony express · February 08, 2010, 09:47:16 PM

Wasn't a bulge after firing, but from seating the bullet. I was using a 166 grain lee bullet then, they have a pretty short nose and long bearing surface. Most of them ended up being too big to chamber in my Blackhawk. But the problem was only with the military brass.

fourfingersofdeath · February 09, 2010, 04:24:43 AM

Yer cowboy gun calibre doean't start with a 4!!!!!

kflach · February 09, 2010, 11:36:41 AM

How can you identify military brass?

Delmonico · February 09, 2010, 04:31:02 PM

Quote from: kflach on February 09, 2010, 11:36:41 AM
How can you identify military brass?

It has a military head stamp.

hellgate · February 09, 2010, 11:34:18 PM

kflatch,
The head stamp on the bottom of the brass will have a manufacturer's initials and year of production . e.g. RA 83 or FA 43 would mean Remington arms 1983 and Frankford Arsenal 1943. Commercial headstamps are what you've seen with the manufacturer written out and the caliber.

kflach · February 10, 2010, 10:56:39 AM

Thanks. I've got a few cases with headstamps I couldn't identify. It looks like they might be military. I'll look at them tonight after I get home from work.

Pony Racer · February 10, 2010, 11:58:57 AM

Kflac - I load these up just the same but i do put them in a seperate container.

Through habit I only use them in monthly matches - not sure if it has ever made a difference in my state matches but it keeps them together for shooting purposes.

I have never had an issue with using them in the rifle but from time to time some seem a bit too big for my converted 51 Navy - with R&D cylinders.

PR