Full bp loads,,,concerning the SAA's ?

[Driftwood Johnson]

I've got a Uberti with a R&D conversion to 45 colt and with my black powder loads it's not real comfortable to shoot, would hate to see how bad it kicks with full power .454!  Come to think of it, it'd be a tight squess as my 45's are durn near flush with the end of the cylinder.  Must use a thin backing plate.  Sure would be interesting at a match with a .454 loaded with black powder though! Cool

Howdy Again

I have two Remmies with R&D conversion cylinders. The cylinders are proofed for Smokeless and will not be hurt by a case full of BP under a 250 grain bullet. But they are only proofed for SAAMI 45 Colt loads. I would not try putting a 454 in one even if it did fit. By the way, the reason 45 Colts approach the front of the cylinder in a R&D cylinder is because the cylinder cap is so thick. Takes a lot of space away from the cylinder proper.

One of my Remmies is an Uberti, the other is an old EuroArms import that I bought back in the 1970s. Uberti Remmies are slightly oversized compared to the originals. My old EuorArms Remmie is the same size as an original. There is a hole in the front of the frame that the round ball ram passes through. This leaves very little steel on the sides of the hole. Of course these guns were originally meant to fire a 44 cal round ball, which does not weigh very much and will not create much recoil no matter what the powder charge is. A 250 grain bullet creates much more recoil. As I have always said, the cylinder on any revolver is the pressure vessel and determines how much pressure the gun can withstand. However the pounding of recoil is a different story. Heavy pounding may affect parts of the frame. That is one reason the J/P 45-200 Big Lube bullet was created. I was afraid of what effect the pounding of recall might have on the thin cross section of the frame of my old EuroArms Remmie with a full charge of powder and a 250 grain bullet in a 45 Colt case. At the time, the 250 grain PRS bullet was the only 45 caliber Big Lube bullet available. So when I heard that Wild Bill Peterson was looking for a 200 grain Big Lube bullet, we pooled our efforts and I designed what eventually became the J/P 45-200 grain Big Lube bullet. It has been a great success, filling a niche needed by BP shooters. I always load the 200 grain J/P 45-200 in Schofield cases for my Remmies. The combination of a 200 grain bullet and just 28 or so grains of powder in a Schofield case results in a very mild load, and I do not worry about pounding the dickens out of the frame of my old EuroArms Remmie.

[Dick Dastardly]

Good words Driftwood,

Mind if I copy them for my upcoming Big Lube Bulletin newsletter?  I'm doing an article on the J/P Revisited.

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Hi DD.

I just edited it a little bit to make it scan a little bit better. Feel free to use it.

[44caliberkid]

For my Remington conversion I use a .451 round ball in a 45 Colt case.   I don't load many of these, just a box or two, but I use approximately 30 grains of powder, a little corn meal to fill up the space or a lubed fiber wad, then seat the round ball till the middle is just below the case mouth and crimp.  Makes a light recoiling load, doesn't stress the Italian frame, plenty of fire and brimstone.   If I get some 45 cowboy special cases I can probably delete the filler.  I'm going to get a 200 grain JP mold and probably the light weight EPP bullet too, because i have a conversion cylinder in an 1860 army also.

[Boomboom]

^{The company i got my spare cylinders from make five-shot cylinders for Ruger and stainlees Remmies in .454  They said ya havta load down for long life in the Remmie, but not iin the Old Army.}  Is that long life of the gun or the shooter?!!!

I've got a Uberti with a R&D conversion to 45 colt and with my black powder loads it's not real comfortable to shoot, would hate to see how bad it kicks with full power .454!  Come to think of it, it'd be a tight squess as my 45's are durn near flush with the end of the cylinder.  Must use a thin backing plate.  Sure would be interesting at a match with a .454 loaded with black powder though!

Yer right it did have a thin plate and a tilting hammer nose, for percussion or cartridge. They did say the Uberti forged frame and the stainless version of Uberti or Pietta are only ones they have a use for, regular blued models are jus too soft.

An ya know, they let me shoot some, and the recoil wern't that bad. Me i jus wanted to mebbe put 50+ of black behind somethin big an twist er off!

[will52100]

I hear you on that!  If it would stand it, I'd convert a Walker to .454 or maybe longer, say cut down brass from something, not sure what would work, and load it full of black.  Unfortunatly the walker wouldn't stand a whole lot of thouse kinds of loads.

[Boomboom]

I hear you on that!  If it would stand it, I'd convert a Walker to .454 or maybe longer, say cut down brass from something, not sure what would work, and load it full of black.  Unfortunatly the walker wouldn't stand a whole lot of thouse kinds of loads.

Nows ya mention it, i've gotta 1860 in their shop gettin the whole shebang, an its gonna have their 'self adjusting arbor compensation'  kinda of a neat setup, it never stretches or wears so ya gets to shoot bunches an no loose wedgie.

Can't wait to see her shoutin&barkin with as much black as she'll take. Gettin the accuracy job too, they figure its gonna put six on a quater at twenty five alll day they said.

Pix when i get 'er.

[will52100]

self ajusting arbor compensation?  What the heck is that?  No stretching or wear?  What'd they do, turn one out of 4150 or something?

[Fox Creek Kid]

FriscoCounty,
"Technically" the .45 Colt was the second caliber.  The original prototypes were submitted in .44 American, which is the same cartridge that was popular in the S&W Mod. 3...

Actually, the first trial gun was in .44 Russian and the military forced Colt to rechamber to .44 American as there were 1,000 S&W Americans issued to troops at the time. W.B. Franklin, president of Colt at the time, actually submitted test targets shot with .44 Russian & .44 American as he personally believed the .44 Russian the better of the two at the time. It was after the Terry Board had decided on the .45-70 that a decision was made by the military to standardize with .45 cal. and they ordered Colt to design a .45 cal. revolver ctg. for the Model A (Peacemaker). Truth is stranger than fiction.

[Mako]

FCK,
I didn't know about the .44 Russian, was there more than one?  I do know Colt's submitted pistols in .44 American because of the Mod. 3s.  You're a fount of knowledge.
Later,
Mako

[Wills Point Pete]

 Sorry, those other cartridges were put into prototype revolvers, the first production SAAs were in .45 Colt.

[Boomboom]

self ajusting arbor compensation?  What the heck is that?  No stretching or wear?  What'd they do, turn one out of 4150 or something?

Somethin strionger than that they tell me. When i get 'er back i'll post it, thinking this is one a those picture worth a thousand words things.

Do know the wedge is there for looks only, doesn't do anything cause the real pressure back is in the arbor. Like i said, real trick!

[will52100]

Stronger than that huh?  This I've got to see!  Please post pics when you get it back.

Thanks

[Fairshake]

I wonder if that self adjuster is in the same parts box as those sky hooks they used last week.

[will52100]

Posibly next to the bucket of prop wash and flight line?

[Boomboom]

Posibly next to the bucket of prop wash and flight line?

Ya i know, if i hadn't ssen it i'd be sayin the same thing.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Sorry, those other cartridges were put into prototype revolvers, the first production SAAs were in .45 Colt.

Serial no. 1 was originally in .44 Russian that was changed to .44 American. Experts believe that other SAA`s were chambered in .44 Russian under serial no. 50 but only a handful survive so as to be difficult to ascertain.

For the source on this I recommend the Kopec book on Colt SAA`s.