Overshirts revisited: Suggested guidelines?

[Books OToole]

Much easier to have a brace of colts.    I have a question about the shirts.  If they are tucked into the pants, where the devil are their braces?   Without suspenders, since I am all front and no back, I would be creating quite a ruckus when my drawers fell to my boots

I have been wondering the same thing.
I can't argue with the photographic evidence, but if the overshirt is tucked in your suspenders have to be on the out side.
And if I recall correctly the Victorican considered  braces/suspenders underware and were to be covered up.

None of the pericod photo show braces.

Books

[Will Ketchum]

Super glue! 

[Skeeter Lewis]

James - Shotgun Steve posted this on NCOWS. Are those two in front wearing overshirts? And do they button all the way down?

[Boot]

I don't think they are overshirts, they don't have the collar and neckline or cuffs at the sleeve. I think they're some kind of jacket/cardigan. I've never seen braces worn with overshirts, possibly to avoid them being exposed, but a waist belt serves just as well to hold up the trousers, I always wear a waist belt with an overshirt and it works fine. Braces are not very practical for manual labor and overshirts are a working garment.

Boot.

[pony express]

I have been wondering the same thing.
I can't argue with the photographic evidence, but if the overshirt is tucked in your suspenders have to be on the out side.
And if I recall correctly the Victorican considered  braces/suspenders underware and were to be covered up.

None of the pericod photo show braces.

Books

Most likely the problem is that many of us(myself included)don't have a "period correct" anatomy......

[Delmonico]

Most likely the problem is that many of us(myself included)don't have a "period correct" anatomy......

Plus many removed them for the picture and then put them back on.  Glasses also.

[liten]

you want to wear period clothes, you eat a period diet

[Delmonico]

None of the pericod photo show braces.

Had a bit of time so I jumped into this, sorry my friend, I have to disagree.  All but the first one are from the Butcher collection and are pre-1900, took longer to crop and load to photo bucket than to find.  The first one was in my files, Guthrie OT during Landrun:

[Books OToole]

Del;

Those are nice photo showing exposed braces.  It still seems to be a minority, compared to those who covered them with a vest or coat.

None of these men appear to be wearing an overshirt; except maybe the young David Ducovney on the horse.


Books

[Delmonico]

It's all back to photos, I think most photographers made sure the braces weren't exposed.  I'd guess the guy in Guthrie didn't try to get the guy with the shotgun to remove them, notice he also has on rubber boots.

We also know Butcher tried a little harder than others to photograph more as things were, look how many pregnant women he got pictures of.  Very unusual in the period. 

And that young fella's name is Charley Meeks, sadly that's about all there is on him.

[liten]

anyone no the makeup of the white shirts you see in period military photos , i no they wore either drk blue of gray, but you also white as well

[Texas John Ringo]

Had a bit of time so I jumped into this, sorry my friend, I have to disagree.  All but the first one are from the Butcher collection and are pre-1900, took longer to crop and load to photo bucket than to find.  The first one was in my files, Guthrie OT during Landrun:

Looks like the man on the right in the 5th from top or 3rd from bottom photo has a belt through belt loops.
After enlarging it, it looks more like a buckle and keeper or a loop/keeper for a watch chain---my bad.

[Major 2]

anyone no the makeup of the white shirts you see in period military photos , i no they wore either drk blue of gray, but you also white as well

Linen
http://www.antiquearts.com/5052/PictPage/3923611710.html

[Dr. Bob]

Major 2,

Thanks for the great site!  Well worth exploring.

[Major 2]

Major 2,

Thanks for the great site!  Well worth exploring.

Welcome...I apologize for my one word answer , I figured a photo etc. was worth a 1000 words.
This site a has many items of interest

[Wild Billy Potts]

anyone no the makeup of the white shirts you see in period military photos , i no they wore either drk blue of gray, but you also white as well

Know quite a bit about them actually. Like you mentioned there were many made from both blue and gray wool flannel, and sometimes other colors were purchased. The white kind you ask about were made from a material called Domet flannel, a curious wool and cotton mixture, and they were sometimes mentioned in old soldier recollections, and never fondly remembered either. I made a spot on recreation of one once, even made it completely handsewn like the original copied, and wore it once before I sold it. Imagine wearing sandpaper, and you will get a really good idea. In so far as I've been able to find the US Army of the Victorian era never contracted for shirts in any material that wasn't wool based, in fact temperate uniform shirts were woolen up well into the late 1940s. If a Victorian era US soldier had a cotton or linen shirt he bought it or had it sent from a relative in most instances.

[Dr. Bob]

From at least 1802 through 1851 all ranks wore linen or in the latter part of the period, cotton shirts.  They are found in the 1802 Standing Orders and the 1849 Regs.  I'm not familiar with the 1853 or 1860 regs.

[Wild Billy Potts]

From at least 1802 through 1851 all ranks wore linen or in the latter part of the period, cotton shirts.  They are found in the 1802 Standing Orders and the 1849 Regs.  I'm not familiar with the 1853 or 1860 regs.

I'm not sure of pre 1850s regs. I've got works on 2 of the white woolen examples, don't quote me on this but I think one of them may have been dated to sometime in the 1840s. The other was CW era. The patterns were nearly the same with only the sleeves and buttons changing. Same "rather coarse and scratchy" material.

[Major 2]

 "rather coarse and scratchy" material.

You seem to be describing: Linsey-woolsey
This textile has been known since ancient times derives it's name from a combination of linen and woollen
Linsey-woolsey a coarse twill or plain-woven fabric woven with a linen warp and a woollen weft.
Similar fabrics woven with a cotton warp and woollen weft in Colonial America and were also called linsey-woolsey or wincey.

[Wild Billy Potts]

"rather coarse and scratchy" material.

You seem to be describing: Linsey-woolsey
This textile has been known since ancient times derives it's name from a combination of linen and woollen
Linsey-woolsey a coarse twill or plain-woven fabric woven with a linen warp and a woollen weft.
Similar fabrics woven with a cotton warp and woollen weft in Colonial America and were also called linsey-woolsey or wincey.

Domet flannel is similar to linsey woolsey, but always plain woven. More than likely it was the cheapest of woolen flannels and deemed suitable for thrifty purchase for enlisted issue shirts. Funny thing about the regulation shirt is, there seem to have been as many, maybe more, non-regulation flannel shirts contracted for often times by the largest of QM depots. It's been many years since I read the article, but I think the Philadephia Depot was the lone holdout when it came to specifying the regulation shirt of "Dammit" flannel.