Does Anyone Make A Commodore Perry Owens Holster?

Gomezy3k · January 26, 2010, 01:19:43 PM

This has probably been covered before, but since I am new to the forum am asking again. Does anyone make a replica of the holster that Commodore Perry Owens wore in the picture of him. It looks like there is a row of rifle shells above a row of pistol shells. I have been intrigued by this holster since I was a kid back in the 60's. I would love to have one of those.

GunClick Rick · January 26, 2010, 02:57:27 PM

Anybody here could make ya one,except me,i like to observe

Slowhand Bob · January 26, 2010, 06:05:21 PM

I really think GCR will be coming out of the closet soon, the leather is pulling him strong.

Arizona Cattleman · January 26, 2010, 08:07:10 PM

Looks like in his picture he has a 5" soft leather money style belt with a single billit and buckle. The pistol cartridges look to be 45 Colt or .44 Cal and the rifle is probably a Springfield Trap Door. I don't know anything about the cartridges that they came in but from the picture my guess would be 45/70. The holster is a cross draw straight up an very long, probably a Remi Conversion. The holster looks to be attached to a slit in the belt. Anybody have any other guesses?

AC

GunClick Rick · January 26, 2010, 08:55:01 PM

First thing i will make is a whip

Closet Leather,Great buissness name

Slowhand Bob · January 26, 2010, 09:23:09 PM

I have seen larger reprints of this photo and had the impression that the holster appeared to have actually had its skirt cut off and the remaining lip sewn to the belt.

Arizona Cattleman · January 26, 2010, 09:39:41 PM

Good info SB, the pic is so small it is hard to determine.

AC

Springfield Slim · January 26, 2010, 09:58:44 PM

Looks to me that the shells are on the belt, not the holster.

ChuckBurrows · January 26, 2010, 11:07:07 PM

As noted the cartridge loops (45/70 and eitehr 45 Colt or 44/40) are on a very wide money belt and the dropped holster is sewn directly to the belt. The revolver is a Colt SAA with 10" barrel.

GunClick Rick · January 27, 2010, 11:45:24 AM

When did the tacking of leather come in and why?Any other reason beside decoration?What spured it on?

ChuckBurrows · January 27, 2010, 04:06:14 PM

Tacks were used on leather since the 1820's, but became most popular after 1860 and was most often used on Indian leather.

Spots aka harness spots have been used for a very long time. I do have evidence for some on cowboy gear from the 1860's, but they became most popular after the mid-1880's.

Jim in Tucson · January 27, 2010, 07:47:46 PM

The highest resolution pic I could find was:

http://blogs.ancestry.com/circle/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/20080331%20Commodore%20Perry%20Owens.bmp

The holster does appear to be directly connected to the very wide belt, worn in a pretty extreme crossdraw...or the gun was pulled using a Prairie Twist draw. It's a peculiar setup...fast access to the pistol rounds would have been iffy at best.

Does anybody have a reliable date for this picture? According to Wikipedia Owens was a ranch foreman in 1881, and was elected sheriff in 1886, suggesting he might have started out in law enforcement around 1882 or so? I don't see a star in this pic, so...is it possible he was a ranch foreman at this time? The guns pictured are at a minimum unusual for a lawman by the 1880s...but they do seem to fit a ranch foreman? It occurs to me that if he was a lawman at this point, he'd have let the star show...?

We need to remember that back then, getting your picture took was a major deal and often involved dressing up as best they could. That said, the gear in question doesn't look like anybody's idea of a "BBQ gun", even back then.

Slowhand Bob · January 27, 2010, 10:04:29 PM

I have never attempted any kind of in depth search on Owens but most of what I have read seems to focus on his famous gunfight, after being ambushed and offer little else on his life. It has always amazed me that men who never faced odds approaching what Owens found himself up against became gunfighter legends while Owens remained relatively obscure. Along with the lack of information in general I am also left with the impression that there was no bad side to his reputation. At any rate, unless someone can offer proof to the contrary it would appear the Owens was more a rifleman than a pistolero and even this gun rig would tend to indicate as much. The rig tends to support the rifle first and maintain the pistol as a secondary weapon.

I once made the statement over on the WIRE that this photo gave him the appearance of being rather short and was informed by someone that he was in fact extremely tall. I asked for documentation and none was offered but for my part most of his history is unknown so both positions were speculation!

Jim in Tucson · January 28, 2010, 05:54:56 AM

IF Wikipedia can be trusted, he was apparently a bit disorganized as a law enforcement administrator which cost him re-election to sheriff, however he wasn't corrupt and continued in law enforcement as a deputy elsewhere.

Rifleman first appears obvious but we know he used a levergun in the fight he's most famous for. This pic with the rolling block might predate his law enforcement career.

Gomezy3k · January 28, 2010, 08:41:34 AM

Quote from: Jim in Tucson on January 28, 2010, 05:54:56 AM
IF Wikipedia can be trusted, he was apparently a bit disorganized as a law enforcement administrator which cost him re-election to sheriff, however he wasn't corrupt and continued in law enforcement as a deputy elsewhere.

Rifleman first appears obvious but we know he used a levergun in the fight he's most famous for. This pic with the rolling block might predate his law enforcement career.

Rolling block?? Isn't that a Trapdoor?

Back when I was a teenager I got a book that had stories about several lawmen from the 1800's. (Famous Lawmen of the Old West by Dorothy Johnson). I loved that book and wish I still had it, (Lost it somewhere in the many moves I made over the years). I saw that picture of Owens and thought it was awesome. I loved the unique holster and since it was the 60's loved his long hair. As I remember few of the lawmen had long hair, Owens, Hickok were the exception to the shorter hair that most had. I aways wondered about his holster since I had never seen one like that, and have not since, so it must be a custom piece specially made for him.

Jim in Tucson · January 28, 2010, 08:54:48 AM

Sigh. Yes, it's a trapdoor. Sheesh. How did I miss that?

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 28, 2010, 10:03:38 AM

It might not have necessarily been his rifle, it could have been a photo prop, IMHO. that is a lot of gun leather to be wearing, but I'm sure he never ran out of ammo.

tEN wOLVES

Gomezy3k · January 28, 2010, 10:36:44 AM

Quote from: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on January 28, 2010, 10:03:38 AM
It might not have necessarily been his rifle, it could have been a photo prop, IMHO. that is a lot of gun leather to be wearing, but I'm sure he never ran out of ammo.

tEN wOLVES

Yeah I wonder what that rig weighs fully loaded and with pistol. There must be 25 or so rifle rounds and probably the same number of pistol rounds... Definitely loaded for bear or a Cowboy Action Match. LOL

Jim in Tucson · January 28, 2010, 03:28:40 PM

I don't think these are prop guns.

First, rifle matches the rifle ammo, at least at first glance. Call it 90%+ odds.

The handgun ammo matches the handgun. We can't be as certain, but...it's the way to bet.

The leatherwork is downright weird - a one of a kind setup. Doesn't sound to me like something a photography shop would keep laying around as a prop.

Now look at the dates per Wikipedia (yeah, I know, "grain o' salt and then some):

Born 1852.

Ranch foreman in 1881.

That's 29 years.

Now look at his face. He ranched across the southwest for a lot of that, after leaving home at 13. That's a good way to put a lotta miles on one's hide.

The dude looks pretty young to me...like this pic may be of a ranch foreman rather than a cop.