Gunsmithing the '58????

Slowhand Bob · January 24, 2010, 09:27:43 AM

Guys, I have a nice basic set up of .44cal Piettas with plenty of extra cylinders to complete a five stage match without reloading. Up front, all cylinders (at least ten) need to be radiused as they are really tough on leather. I have also decided I want some shorter barls fer when I git to feelin real froggy shooting Frontiersman! How big a job is it to shorten the barls on '58s, are they threaded in or pressed?

A couple of years back I purchased a pair of 5 1/2" blued guns from Cabellas with the idea of having a pair in each barl length but alas, it seems they had changed the bolt and cylinder lots so that my old cylinders wouldnt interchange. Is it possible that Pietta made short barl guns before the change was made? Since I have the new unfired pair, I am wondering if it might not be cheeper to look for a trade on an existing short pair of older guns, if they made such an animal. I do not want to cut my older guns without looking into other options first.

If I do end up having to get the older guns shortened, what kind of price am I looking at?

Raven · January 24, 2010, 10:22:35 AM

Hi Slowhand Bob,

I would definately look around for guns in the lengths you want!

From a working gunsmith your looking at at least $200 each.

On the Pietta Cutting and crowning the barrel would be $50. The Pietta has a sight and loading lever latch that are hammer welded to the barrel so you would need 2 dovetails cut at $50 each and then you need a front sight and a loading lever latch (Uberti parts would work) Then the loading lever needs to be shortened for another $50. I would throw in the chamfer on the cylinders as a value added.

I'm sure someone will suggest shortening the barrel from the rear and re-threading. This is certainly a viable way to go, but would cost about the same. If you shorten from the front you gain a windage adjustable front sight. another value added

You may be able to find a hobby gunsmith who would do the work for less!

Regards
Jay Strite

Angel_Eyes · January 24, 2010, 01:02:53 PM

Absolutely, find the accomplished hobbyist to do the job!

I did my own and it is not hard as long as you do one stage at a time and take your time!

Everybody who has handled them think they are the "Dogs Bo**ocks", (English Geordie expression meaning very good).

AE

Flint · January 24, 2010, 01:11:38 PM

The problem with shortening the barrel to 5-1/2 inches from the rear is the Pietta factory mounted lever catch lug will not allow the cylinder pin to be removed or inserted. The short barrelled Ubertis leave the lug's dovetail loose enough to remove the lug by hand to clear the path for the cylinder pin removal.

Older narrow notch (.136) cylinders need to be opened up with a Woodruff key cutter to the .156 width now used. The older Piettas have a tapered head on the bolt to fit into the narrow notch. I think that before the CNC machining was introduced at Pietta that they needed to taper the bolt head by hand fitting to adjust the centering of the cylinder's chambers to the barrel bore. The bolt width is .156, so the older revolver can be fitted with a new bolt to work with the newer or recut cylinder notches.

I refit older cylinders and replaced the bolts for a Pard in Phoenix who had bought new spare cylinders and found the notches too wide for his older Piettas. I also shortened the barrels to 4-1/2 inches and installed cylinder pin retainers of my design for him.

Flint. Email me for cost estimates if you are interested.

R. Flux · January 24, 2010, 05:42:40 PM

When you radius the front of the cylinders.... How do you do it and how much do you take off? I can't figure how my router table will handle the job and it might be a bit hard on the bits. Now my drill press might volunteer... and the grinder is chomping at the bit.
~R.Flux

NucSub · January 24, 2010, 06:29:41 PM

Last week cut down my Remmie to 3.5in. Still working on the loading gate and will cut/hinge the cylinder pin. As to the site and gate latch, I hand cut dovetails to fit the old parts back on. Took my time and came out ok. Filled any gaps with JB Weld and will see how that does when I refinish the gun. The limit on cutting the barrel without having to modify the cylinder pin is about 4.5in. Look up "Ultimate Remington" in google and you should be able to find a link to cutting one down.
I've threatened to do this for about 10 years and finally made it happen. Also rounded the butt end for a better for me feel.
As to rounding the front of the cylinder, I chucked the cylinder into my drill press. Used a spade bit and rubber o-ring to prevent it turning. Started the press and layed a file on the offending edge. Let the press rotation do the work and moved the flile to make the edge round. 5 minutes work.

Attached a picture of mine just after cut down. Have added the site and gate latch since.

Wolfgang · January 24, 2010, 08:14:04 PM

I shortened the barrel on one of mine. Just to have something "different". Reloading requires the use of a screwdriver, . . but if the same was done an one with a cartridge conversion and loading gate it would be slick. I didn't like ti without a web under the barrel. Just "not a Remington" without the web

http://www.drburkholter.com/cf4.html

Slowhand Bob · January 25, 2010, 09:44:35 AM

Guys, I appreciate the input and hope to have more of a response tonight. Last night I carried out some experiments that actually surprised me BUT.... Being the fergitful old dude I am, the results have gotten to confused for me to comment without repeating them tonight while actually posting! I can say that they included swapping around old and new versions of Pieata frames with old, new and Kirst versions of the cylinders.

delmar · January 25, 2010, 04:02:40 PM

Quote from: Slowhand Bob on January 24, 2010, 09:27:43 AM
I am wondering if it might not be cheeper to look for a trade on an existing short pair of older guns

I sent you a private message.

Slowhand Bob · January 25, 2010, 08:01:37 PM

Delmar, I received the PM.

I crossed checked cylinders and guns last night and again tonight using different generation frames (bolts) and cylinders. Though not exact the results were very similar this evening to the ones obtained last night. I used an old style bolt = OB, a new style bolt = NB, an old style cylinder = OC, a new style cylinder = NC and finally a Kirst Converter cylinder + KC. Just for information the Kirst cylinders are the older six shot 45acp versions and well predate Piettas bolt/cylinder cut change BUT do have the wider notches reminiscent of the newer Pietta cylinders.

Tested new frame fit ups first:
NB + NC = A lockup with just barely perceptible rotational shake.
NB + OC = A lockup with only slightly more movement, perhaps one second or less and always counter clockwise.
NB + KC = A very tight lockup, better than factory installed cylinder.
Then the old frame:
OB + NC = A very slight amount of counter clockwise shake.
OB + OC = A very tight lockup.
OB + KC = A very slight amount of rotational shake.

The most shake on the combinations tried tonight was with the new frame and old cylinder while the most movement with the guns I tested last night came with an old bolt and Kirst cylinder and they were about equal in movement. Since I have had good SASS results with the Kirst cylinders in my old guns I have little doubt now that the new guns should handle the old cylinders. I now intend to cross check the two new guns with all ten old cylinders to be sure that none are noticably worse when the bolt is locked up. I also think a call to Pietta is in order to see what their impression of mixing the two generations would be. Right now it appears that I already have a workable, if not perfect, combination, but with mixing six guns with sixteen total cylinders I doubt I ever would.