Asking for some information on loading 45 Special

[Pole Cat Pete]

I started to get my loading building in order and found some 45 of that short 45 Colt brass (45special )

It has been so long since I loaded I cannot remember what die to use for crimp.

I cannot get a crimp  with my normal 45 Colt or 45 Schofield dies.

Anyone share what they use to crimp this brass. I do like it and am going to buy more for my pistols whenever I can get this crimp thing correct.

Thanks



Pete

[Delmonico]

If I were to load it I'd get a taper crimp for a 45 acp.  I'm kinda funny, I really like taper crimps, I think they beat the heck out of roll crimps.

[Pole Cat Pete]

Thank you sir !

Now where in the world did I put that ACP taper crimp die LOL 

Later


Pete

[Mako]

Pole Cat,
Since we're talking BP on this forum then most would agree a medium to hard ROLL crimp is preferred over a taper crimp to build the pressures a good BP load needs.  Others would disagree.  At CAS ranges you can pretty much get away with murder, but if you want to tweak that last little bit of oomph out of it and get a cleaner burning load then you might investigate a roll crimp.

I have shot a lot of .45 Auto Rim in my S&W 25s.  Since the Auto Rim doesn't head space on the mouth I found with heavier bullets and smokeless powder I got a tighter pressure distribution (actually measured) and less bullet movement in the unfired chambers with roll crimps.  I have an old set of RCBS .45 ACP dies that included a roll crimp die and it works fine.  I use taper crimps on any pistol cartridge that headspaces on the mouth and roll crimp everything else.

I personally (but that's just me) wouldn't consider taper crimping anything with BP unless you decide to join the ranks of us that do goofy things like shoot BP in 1911s.  If you ever decide to do that then send me a message and I'll pass along my experience and recommendations .

I understand RCBS still sells an individual  roll crimp die for .45 ACP.  I also know that Lee will sell you a roll crimp ring and spacer for a Lee die. I'm not sure if it is for a .45 Colt or a .45 ACP factory Crimp Die.  But I do know it is less than $10 and you can call Lee 262-673-3075 and they will tell you what you need.  I like the Lee factory Crimp dies and use them for almost all of my roll crimping now.

Now down to the brass tacks so to speak...Just like a Belly Button everyone has an opinion.  But, just as some Belly Buttons are much more interesting and attractive than others so is the case with "opinions."  I would suggest you consider the opinion of the people who invented the cartridge.  On Adirondack Jack's COWBOY45SPECIAL.COM FAQ page

http://www.cowboy45special.com/FAQ.html

They recommend Roll Crimping and a Hornady  Die set # 546554. I believe in deferring to expertise, I don't believe there is a higher level to appeal to than AJ or Hap on this subject.

Have fun and the best of luck,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

When loading C45Spl ammo I've been very happy with my set of LEE 45 ACP dies and a 45 Colt shell holder.  Experience has shown that 1.3cc of Holy Black under either an EPP-UG 150 grain or J/P 45 200 grain Big Lube® bullet gives very satisfactory performance.

This is my preferred ammo for my brace of Pietta 1860 open top guns with Kirst Konverter cylinders.

DD-DLoS

[Pole Cat Pete]

Thanks guys this is what I was looking for. I am using APP powder and the little EPP Big Lube boolit in my set up.
However last time I loaded this ammo I over compressed the APP and this produced enough recoil that I hand to hold on to my RV's with  both hands. I have backed off on the powder charge to just a slight compressed load. This should work just fine.

Thanks again for the information.

Pete 

[Delmonico]

What Mako seems to not realize is a good tight taper crimp will hold a bullet in place tighter than a roll crimp.  This was proved many years ago by Ross Sigfreid (sp) whhen working with some of those wildcat 475 and 50 cals built on Ruger Bisleys back in the 80's.  If you don't believe it Mako, no problem, I ain't got the time to waste proving you and we don't need to waste the server space with your "over" long winded reason why.

[Adirondack Jack]

Howdy Pete.  I have used both the Hornady die and more recently gone back to the  Lee ACP die.  Though Lee's die is nominally a taper crimp, if you crank it down a ways it produces what Lee calls a modified roll crimp (it's the same die they sell for ACP and Autorim, with different instruction sheets).  It works just fine.

If APP is producing too much recoil, back off the charge.  Little compression is needed in the short case (always think of compression in terms of percentage of the powder column height.  A short case gets as much effect from as little as 1/32 to 1/16" compression as a longer case will get out of twice that much.  If I can be of further assistance, email adirondakjack@yahoo.com
<<Jack>>

[Delmonico]

Jack, any taper crimp die will produce that, I do the same on my 45-70 Sharps because it gives better accuarcy and less fouling than any other amount of crimp or lack of it.  Might not be true in everyone's gun, in fact I would doubt it would.

BTW in case anyone doubts what the heavy taper crimp will hold like I say, just take an unprimed case with a lino bullet and seat it and crimp it.  You'll crush the case before the bullet moves most times.  Don'd figger you need more bullet pull than that, others may not think so, not my problem.

[Mako]

You see Pete? I told you everyone had a Belly Button...
~Mako

[Pole Cat Pete]

I did find out that with APP you had better not over compress unless you are one of those people that are in to pain !!!

HOLY CRAP BATMAN. A little case that will lift your hands about a foot under recoil .I will  get this little round working again.
Thanks Friends for your information.

Pete

[Delmonico]

You see Pete? I told you everyone had a Belly Button...
~Mako

Yep, most everyone has one, some don't, anymore.  However a belly button is a left over part with no use except to collect lint and get dangerous infections in.  How ever a taper crimp die is a die that if one learns to use it, will produce better ammo that a roll crimp die for those who find that important. which of course not everybody cares about.

[Mako]

... However a belly button is a left over part with no use except to collect lint and get dangerous infections in...

Hmmmm, my point exaclty.

Thank you and have a nice evening,
Mako

[Delmonico]

Hmmmm, my point exaclty.

Thank you and have a nice evening,
Mako

OK, I'm bored right now, as per yer original post, go ahead and write a thesis on why a hard roll crimp would be better than a hard taper crimp, which of course results in a heavier bullet pull since the die supports the case and does not allow it to pull away from the shank of the bullet like a roll crimp can and often will, esp if the cases vary at all in length.  Since most folks don't trim CAS brass much or all, this is quite common or more likely the rule.

Of course with a taper crimp die as the round is shoved further into the tapered die, (hence the reason the call it a taper crimp) it just keeps crimpimg tighter, but the brass never pulls away from the shank of the bullet. 

Bullet pull or you could say "how tight the bullet fits in the case" is in a properly loaded round, what stops any bullet movement, forward or backward while being cyled and other rounds are fired.  A roll crimp is if all cases are exactly the same length and adjusted to give a firm crim, just a bit of insurance to hold it in place while cycling and to give a better ignition. 

The world advances and better mousetraps are built, and one can choose to use them or not, I do not use a Gateway 2000 since better devices do the task better, that is the same reason I will never roll crimp a round in any caliber that I can get a taper crimp in, if the round needs to be crimped.

See I tried hard to write a lot more to explain a simple idea, since you seem to like that a lot. Freud might have something to say about that if he was still alive, but who knows.

So as I said, explain why you think a roll crimp is better than a taper crimp for this or any other application, other than a lot of dies sets already have one and often you have to buy a taper crimp as an extra.  Of course the OP has stated that he has the proper taper crimp die from another project, so that doesn't apply in this case.

Oh and I really doubt you give a durn I have a good evening, in fact I really think you secretly hope I have a lousy evening, perhaps not a disaterous evening, I'm sure you don't hope I hit a train with my pick-up, but the good evening part I really doubt.

(How's that, long enough to be considered a thesis about a simple idea, one that could be explained with less server space, or should I be like the old Avis ads and try harder.)


Gawd, I'm ready for a cup of good coffee after that, I'll have to have a nice cup of Mexican Alturo when I get home.

[Cuts Crooked]

Ok,       's enuff! We gone  WAAAAAYYYYY off topic.