1873 Uberti in 44 mag. + toggle-link strength

[Trailrider]

I think I found where you read this. 

(snip)
Comforting to know that the toggle link action is probably stronger than we've all thought, but I'd still like to see one of these with the side plates off.

Well, buy one and you can take the sideplates off to your heart's content!    I wouldn't mind owning one in .44-40, but right now that isn't in the FY2010 budget! 

[Martini450]

I feel your pain.  My FY2010 budget wouldn't allow for the sideplates alone, much less the whole rifle!

By the way, I highly recommend the 44-40 model.  Mine has the full 30" barrel, and it's a tack driver. 

[Lightnin Rick]

Just found out about the 73 in 44 mag as I was searching for 44 mag info on my Hawes western marshall revolver. I would like a rifle mate for it... Sometime--$$.
Has anyone received the Uberti or any more info?

[Martini450]

Rick,

I just read your post, and it inspired me to call Taylor and Company.  According to the girl who answered the phone, thier computer shows a couple in stock right now, priced at just over twelve hundred bucks.  She's new to the company, so I had her triple check the calibre, and she assured me it's the 44 Magnum with a 19" barrel.  I might just have to make a drive out that way in the next week or two to have a little look. 

After all the wait, maybe they're actually making these things!

[Abilene]

Yeah, Cimarron has the 44mag carbines as well.  I asked if anything was "different" about them to beef them up, and the answer was no. 

[Roland]

It's been a while now. Has anyone bought one of these in .44mag and checked it out? I'd heard conflicting reports on the modified action or not. It's really crazy to think that this action is standing up to that kind of abuse, I'd love to hear from any current owners.

I currently have a 629 and Rossi 1892 in .44mag and I'd love to have an 1873 in .44mag as well (but in a sporting rifle config), so I wouldn't need to get any more reloading equipment. I mostly shoot cast bullets at .44spl velocities anyhow.

[blackpowder]

Since joining this forum, and reading others, I keep hearing about the inherent weakness of the toggle-link action in the 73 + 76.
If it is so weak, how can Uberti chamber a 73 in the 44 mag. Your thoughts...

Thank you, RedBaron, for posting this because I've got a lot to say about this; mainly because I have to deal with exactly this problem.

Here are some facts: I own a 73, Cal. 38-40 Winchester made in 1885 and a Uberti 73, Cal. 357mag. made in 2009. With the sideplates off, the toggle actions, links and all other parts connectet to them are completely identical. You can practically use Uberti spare parts for your old winchesters. They fit. Another Fact: The model 1873 was designed for the 44-40, 38-40 and other cartridges in use at the time. NOT, however, for modern high pressure magnum cartridges. Fact: Uberti is required, as most European gun manufacturers to proofshoot their weapons with ammo loaded to much higher pressures than factory ammo. (I think someone already mentioned this somewhere above). So you don not have to worry about magnum cartridges, whether they are .44mag or .357mag, to break your gun. It will not happen. Ok, so much for the facts.

But the 44mag and the 357mag is problematic in the 1873 models. And here is my opinion as to why. While occasional use of magnum cartridges will not adversly affect your gun, a steady diet of these hard full house magnum loads will over time wear out the link-pins of the toggle action. The action will become looser and sooner or later this will result in a broken link-pin disabling your gun (Dont worry, it will not blow up on you but the action will just quit working).

To avoid this occurring, I use the .357s only sparingly and mostly shoot 38Spls. The same applies to the 44mag. You should use 44Spl for everyday practice shooting, using the magnums only when needed. This practice, however, brings another problem down on you - chamber fouling. The shorter cases of the 44Spl and 38Spl cause the front end of the chamber to collect layers of powder residue which after about 500 shots will make loading the longer magnum cases impossible. This is a well known problem with wheelguns but easy to remedy by cleaning. Not so with lever action rifles because you can't easily access the chamber with cleaning utensils (I still havent found a practical way to clean out the chamber after shooting 38s)

Having said all this, I would not again buy an 1873 in either 357 or 44 magnum calibers. I would prefer to get a model 1892 in those modern magnum calibers such as .44Rem. Mag. I hear winchester again produces replicas of these guns. I dont know how well made they are. Perhaps some other member has one already and can share his experience with it.  

[Roland]

I feed my '92 and 629 a steady diet of home loaded ammo thats in the .44spl range anyway. Using Vihtavuori N32c powder. I would feed the '73 the same if one existed in the config I want.

Now that I think about it, I currently use bought 225gr .44-40 bullets for these rifles.

[blackpowder]

.44Spl range is quite alright.

You can use .44Spls in a Uberti 73 set up for .44mag just fine. Just like I use 38Spl in my Uberti 73 set up for .357mag (just difficult to clean the chambers after a few 100 rounds). But to use the full house magnum loads will in time wear out your toggle action as I described above.

[Roland]

I wonder if they had upgraded the action with the aforementioned key that the '76 model has, would that have increased the actions strenght enough to accepta steady diet of magnum rounds?

[blackpowder]

Interesting to note that they put a shotgun butt stock and recoil pad on this one, so I guess they're serious.

One of the things to keep in mind is that Uberti Arms, and all other Italian makers, are required by law to have their products proofed by the Italian government in state owned proof houses.  The proof loads used in Italian proof houses exceed those used in this country.   If Uberti marks their new 73 for 44 mag, then it is proofed and meets SAAMI standards for the 44 mag or they would not be allowed to export it - their rules, not ours.

One of the improvements necessary to make this possible, is the strengthen design of the bolt and firing pin assembly, which now uses the "key" to retain the firing pin extension, rather than the wimpy cross pin in the early design, which could, on rare occasions,  shear.  The "Key" is also used in the 76 Uberti.  Much stronger set up and more like the original Winchester.



I have never seen pics of any blown 73 or 76 that resulted in collapsed links - only burst breeches and barrels.

My only question is why?  I don't like the 44 mag in any light weight carbine!

Now as to the question of why we keep smokeless loads for the 76 on the mild side of things, it is primarily because we are on untested ground, and must proceed slowly and cautiously until more data is confirmed, either by field trial or in a lab.

I don't know which rifle Grizzly Adams pictured here. There is no "key" in my Uberti .357mag. So I wonder if it is in the .44mag and if it really strenghtens the action?

As Grizzly Adams correctly explains: Uberti is required by law to test their guns with ammo loaded to much higher pressures than factory ammo and the guns have to be "proofmarked" prior to selling them. So the action can definately withstand full house magnums. But the question is - FOR HOW LONG ? I, for one, am not about to put 500 mags through my 73 just to see how good the action can take it. 

I guess we  just have to wait for some member who is more informed on the subject to tell us. I am really burning to know.

Greetings!   

[Roland]

As I understood it, only the 1876 models have that upgrade. I was thinking maybe putting it back in the 1873 actions meant to shoot magnums could've been a good idea?

[St. George]

As to the testing - that's called 'proofing' and generally it's a single round, loaded to high pressure termed a 'Blue Pill'.

That's how they get their proof marks stamped on them.

It's also indicative of the fact that there's no such thing as an 'unfired' example if the weapon's been proofed.

I prefer a more traditional caliber than any of the magnums, myself.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Abilene]

I don't know which rifle Grizzly Adams pictured here. There is no "key" in my Uberti .357mag. ....

All of the '73 (and I think '66 and '60?) bolts from Uberti have had that key for the last 2 or 3 years.  The old-style bolts are getting harder to find, so if you need to replace one you will often have to buy the new firing pin extension that goes with the new "keyed" bolts.

[Martini450]

Well, I went to the Chantilly, Virginia gun show yesterday and dropped by Taylor's booth.  Sure enough, they had the 44 Magnum 1873 carbine on the rack, and I was able to handle it.  Other than the thin rubber recoil pad, it looks like any other blued '73 carbine; they even have the bottom of the brass carrier marked "44 Mag".  The booth was too busy to get any real information on the piece, but it looked very well made, as would be expected of any Uberti rifle.  I may be stopping by their shop in Winchester a week from tomorrow; if so, I'll try to get more information and post it.

[blackpowder]

I may be stopping by their shop in Winchester a week from tomorrow; if so, I'll try to get more information and post it. . . .

Yes, please do. It would be very interesting to many people how the toggle actions of the .44mag rifles (and .357 for that matter) can withstand regular use of magnum loads. Much appreciated. THANKS!   

[Bryan Austin]

This has to be the funniest topic I have even read. Uberti prooved that THEIR 73 can handle 44 Mag pressures and some of you old farts just simply refuse to believe it.......lol    whatta bunch of bafoons! 

[wildman1]

SJ did it really take ya a year+ ta come up with that? WM

[Bryan Austin]

SJ did it really take ya a year+ ta come up with that? WM

Yeap. I think about'em, tape notes to my computer and BAM I drop the bomb all at one time.

Of course not, I search for stuff all the time and this is the first time I read that topic. I don't sit here and read every topic every day. I have a job. I got fussed at for not searching for stuff then when I do I get fussed at for posting on old topics.

[wildman1]

WELL. Don't be lettin s**t like that slip by ya again.    WM