Spencers at Gettysburg

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

This is more a historical question than anything else,but it will add to my enjoyment of shooting my carbine.
Do any of you know if any of the Federal units engaged at Gettysburg had Spencers? Especiially the men of Bufords'
Brigade? 

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

This is more a historical question than anything else,but it will add to my enjoyment of shooting my carbine.
Do any of you know if any of the Federal units engaged at Gettysburg had Spencers? Especiially the men of Bufords'
Brigade? 

Sorry Guys,for an unneccessary post. Looked it up under Bufords Brigade on the internet. The article claimed that Buford's men had Spencers. But I doubt if the entire brigade did. I would still like to know which units.

[Herbert]

there were no spencer carbines yoused at Gettysburg or by Bufords brigade,however spencer rifles were yoused by elimits of Custers cavelry and proved so efictive that it lead to the widspread youse of spencer carbines by the cavelry after that

[DJ]

Spencer repeaters didn't begin production until late 1862, and the first weapons produced were rifles.  The company didn't even start production of carbines until mid-1863, and they weren't available for Gettysburg.  As Hebert notes, some of the Michigan cavalry had Spencer rifles at Gettysburg, but there weren't any Spencer carbines at the battle.

[Arizona Trooper]

Here's a little more detail. The 5th and 6th Mich Cavalry had Spencer rifles at Gettysburg. The rifles were shipped for delivery between Christmas and New Year 1862, but the units were mustered and set to Washington before the rifles arrived. The Spencers were forwarded to DC and actually issued in January of '63. The 5th and 6th were assigned to the defenses of Washington. After the battles at the battles at Aldie, Middleburg and Upperville, just after Brandy Station at the end of June, Custer asked for them to be assigned to his Michigan Brigade. Their first use of Spencers in battle was at Hanover, Pa., the day before the Gettysburg cavalry battle. They were also engaged at the east cavalry battlefield at Gettysburg. The monument there shows the Michigan brigade armed with carbines, but it's incorrect.

Buford's men were armed mainly with Smiths, Burnsides and Sharps.

[Bead Swinger]

Hi All -
I think we've had a post sequence on this topic before... My recollection is that Buford's men were issued Spencer Rifles, but the big question is WHEN. Some writers have claimed that some of Buford's men were issued them when they were in DC on their way north. Most claim that they picked them up when they went for refit after the battle (meaning, they were issued Rifles). They then turned them in for Spencer carbines, which they carried for the rest of the war. Some claim they never had rifles, and only had 1860C's issued later.

Again, my poor recollection, which is in variance with some historical writers is that there should be some doubt about whether or not some of the regiments in Buford's division were Spencer (read 1860R) armed:

• Returns from the Union Cav Units were poor to begin with; the fact that they were issued 1860C's after the battle is not evidence that they didn't have 1860R's. The same is true of the Michigan Brigade
• Most regiments were issued a nasty mix of arms, which made small-arms ammunition supply a major headache. That some of the squadrons were re-issued Spencer's in May or June is not impossible, nor improbable.
• Buford's men did make their opposing infantry (Heth) think there were a lot more of them there than there actually was, both by the volume and duration of sustained fire. This is a little unusual, even if armed with the usual mix of Sharps, Smiths, etc., because of the limited ammo available to the individual horseman and the fact that 1 in 4 is off holding horses. At least the Michigan troopers claim that when they first got their Rifles, they also got 100 rounds of 56-56 ammo.
• Spencer rifles were available, and planned for distribution to Union Cavalry in May/June 1863

Never-the-less, unless/until someone digs up a fairly large stash of spent Spencer cases on McPherson's ridge, or other really solid 1^st-hand written evidence, we should go with the popular view that none of Buford's troopers had a Spencer rifle at the battle of Gettysburg, but also be open to the reasonable doubt that 140+ years of history should produce.

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

Thank you,Gentlemen for all your responses. I have been a re-enactor and student of the civil war,but until recently
I have concentrated on the Infantry since I was Regular Army and National Guard Infantryman. Acquiring my Spencer
has widened my intrests.(I'm still after a repro Spencer rifle) It really disappoints me that both the internet and some supposedly authoritative books just repeat what they have heard. I am currently reading "McPherson's Ridge" by Steven H. Newton a "Battleground America Guides" series book. On page 16 his quote is: "Even armed with repeating carbines...) While Smiths,Starrs,Burnsides and Sharps were breechloaders,they were not repeaters.

[ducklakedave]

I have a "dropped" Spencer cartridge that I got from a fellow who dug it along the Chambersburg Pike near Bufords position on the first day of Gettysburg.  I was supicious of it but the map he showed me gives it some authentication.  There were certainly no regiments with the Spencer Rifle in that area, but there could have been a random one around.  The East Cavalry Battlefield was another story.  A few years ago I was fortunate to obtain the Quarterly inventories of firearms and sabres of the Michigan regiments.  The June 30, 1863 inventory shows 479 Spencer rifles for the 5th Michigan and 93 Spencers for the 6th.  These rifles rained a lot of havoc on Stuarts cavalry in the initial battle at the East Cavalry field.  I understand the 5th and 6th fought primarily dismounted with squads of four dismounting and one soldier holding the horses with the other three firing.  The other two regiments in the Michigan Brigade were the 1st and 7th.  They were "sabre regiments" primarily armed with the sabre and the Remington revolver.  The 1st had Sharps carbines and the 7th a few Burnsides but no Spencers.  If anyone needs any info on the later issuance of Spencers to the Michigan troops I would be glad to provide what I have.  I dont have the serial #s, just the number of Spencers and other  weapons possessed by each company and regiment on a quarterly basis. Nice to be back with this group.  ducklakedave

[Arizona Trooper]

Don't forget, surplus Spencers were very popular hunting rifles for 40 years after the war. That round could have easily been dropped a long time after the battle.

Last year Joe Bilby published "Small Arms at Gettysburg". My copy is on the way. This should shed a lot of light on who had what arms, and where. His research is outstanding.

When Joe was writing this, we had some discussions about the report of a member of the 49th VA. Infantry having a Spencer at Culps Hill. Other than a unit history written well after the war, there is no evidence for it, and the 49th never operated near the 5th or 6th Mich., which were the only units in the east with Spencers before Gettysburg.