Case variance

[kflach]

I know that people who are reloading sort their cases. I know that cases can vary between manufacturers; although the length may be the same the thickness of the cases can be slightly different.

I'm getting ready to load Holy Black (Goex fffg) into .38 Spl cases. I've read repeatedly that there should be 1/16 to 1/8 inch compression. No problem, I can figure out how to get that, but do I need to take a different measurement for each brand of case that I use?

Alternatively, the loading chart at the Goex website says to use a Powder Charge Measure Setting of 16 for that size case (http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/Cartridge-Pistol-Revolvers.pdf). Is it safe to assume I could actually just use that and it would provide enough compression regardless of which case I use?

[Noz]

There you go, thinking again. 

Don't know about the powder charge from GOEX

There will not be enough variation in case length to make a difference on a black powder load.
Load for 1/8" compression and don't look back.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

First off, not everybody sorts their cases. I have a bucket full of 38 Sp brass that I have collected over the last 25 years or so. Every brand imaginable. True, I only load Smokeless in 38 Sp, but I don't sort through that bucket of brass, I just reach in and grab handfulls and run them through my tumbler before loading them with Unique.

I gave up being compulsive about sorting brass and keeping track of the number of loads through them and stuff like that years ago.

As far as my BP 45 Colt and 44-40 rounds are concerned, my favorite brand of brass is Winchester. So I do sort them out from everything else. I have boxes full of nothing but Winchester brass, and I have other boxes full of 'miscellaneous' brands. Again, everything under the sun in those buckets. For loading Black Powder for Cowboy shooting, there just is not enough difference from brand to brand to matter at all.

Don't overthink it. Determine what charge will be compressed between 1/16" and 1/8" under your specific bullet, and load them up. That's all there is to it.

[kflach]

Thanks Noz. I can't help myself. Besides, this is a lot more fun to think about than a lot of other things. ;-)


Driftwood,
Out of curiosity, why do you prefer Winchester over other brands? Is it simply cost or is there some other criteria?

[Delmonico]

For presision long rangne work with either black or smokeless it's important, for big targets up close, naw, worry about it when you buy a Sharps or something like it and want to shoot beyond 300 yards or with a varmint rifle where you want to hit a prairie dog in the head at 400.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Everybody has favorites for one reason or another.  For black powder, it doesn't matter a darn what the brand of brass is.  There isn't enough difference in volume to be noticeable at the ranges we shoot.  I like Starline nowadays because they are less expensive and seem to last every bit as long.

They also produce more dimensionally correct brass for my 38-55.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Driftwood,
Out of curiosity, why do you prefer Winchester over other brands? Is it simply cost or is there some other criteria?

Howdy Again

With 44-40, Winchester brass is about .001 thinner at the neck than most other brands. This is important if one needs to use larger diameter bullets in tight chambers. But the real reason is there is a guy who shows up at gunshows here and he carries bags of Winchester brass. So that's the brand that is most easily available to me. Nothing more than that. Since I already have so much Winchester brass to begin with, I just want to keep it separated from the other stuff.

[Dick Dastardly]

I've been shootn' a lot of Cowboy 45 Special.  Only one manufacturer makin' 'em so it's easy to sort.  My 44 ELR brass comes from everybody including some from the gas station stores.  It all loads the same with Holy Black and shoots Mav Dutchman bullets just fine.

Ok, that's two extremes.  Anything in between is acceptable to SASS shooting.

DD-DLoS

P.S. 44 ELR is 44 Extra Long Russian aka 44 Mangleum.

[fourfingersofdeath]

I think the only time it'd make any sort of difference is if there was a length difference which might effect your crimping, but with a Lee Factory Crimp, she'll jam that crimp on no matter where the case is.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Again

With 44-40, Winchester brass is about .001 thinner at the neck than most other brands. This is important if one needs to use larger diameter bullets in tight chambers. But the real reason is there is a guy who shows up at gunshows here and he carries bags of Winchester brass. So that's the brand that is most easily available to me. Nothing more than that. Since I already have so much Winchester brass to begin with, I just want to keep it separated from the other stuff.

Another "fact" about Winchester brass.  This was told to me by the engineers at BOTH Hodgdon and Sierra when I called them for reloading specifics: (I put fact in quotes because I can't test or prove their statements, but I trust their knowledge and experience.)

They both stated that, industry-wide, Winchester is considered to have/use the softest brass.  (Most ductile? was one of the words used, IF remembered correctly)  This and the thinner necks makes Winchester brass well-suited for BP loading.  

On their advice, I bought 3,000 new 45 Colt cases.  ALL   my rounds, be they BP or smokeyless, are loaded to the highest safe levels.  Many of my cases have been loaded more than 15 times.  I MAY have lost 20 cartridge cases to neck or case splitting, but it's probably more like 10-12.

By the way, I've had nearly as good results with other brass I have, primarily Starline.  BP really doesn't put much strain on the cases.  Or guns, either.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Ductility is a mechanical property used to describe the extent to which materials can be deformed plastically without fracture.

In materials science, ductility specifically refers to a material's ability to deform under tensile stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to be stretched into a wire.

This property is essential with cartridge brass, which is formed by cold forming techniques. The brass is literally shoved into shape.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Again

Ductility is a mechanical property used to describe the extent to which materials can be deformed plastically without fracture.

In materials science, ductility specifically refers to a material's ability to deform under tensile stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to be stretched into a wire.

This property is essential with cartridge brass, which is formed by cold forming techniques. The brass is literally shoved into shape.

This pretty much goes along with what they said.

[Nine Toed Bob]

 I ran 150 rounds of .38 spl. through my Dillon yesterday and when I was putting them in the ammo boxes I ran across these 7 with problems. (See pics attached). I'm baffled as to what caused this. Can you pards help an old geezer?
Here is the data:
Starline Brass, fired 2X-3X
11 gr. Trailboss
125 gr Missouri bullets
Federal Sm. pistol primers.

[Nine Toed Bob]

'nother pic...maybe?
Sorry if I contaminated this forum with smokless!

[Wills Point Pete]

 Off the top of my head NT Bob, I'd guess that somehow you didn't have the case solidly in the shellholder and the case wasn't straight up and down so it bent when you had the pressure on it.

[litl rooster]

  Looks like the old, Not enough Beer I mean Ice tea...9toed I have simular outcome from using my Lee loader, it is from over pulling the lever forcing the casing farther up in the die. I haven't had issues with loading straight walled casing using my Dillon loader. Are you using the brass pins in the shell plate to keep your casing lined up?

[Nine Toed Bob]

 Yes the pins are in.  I'm suspecting, since the other 140 rounds were perfect as usual, ;0), I may have had the bullets cocked off a bit when I put them in the case before seating them. I may try to duplicate the problem by doing that. Unless you have a better idea.
Thanks guys!

[Nine Toed Bob]

Well, I put bullets in crooked three ways and there were no problems at that station. The seater die would straighten them out and they were ready for crimping. The problem was at the crimping station. I can force the case out to its' liumit and will deform exactly like the others with no powder. There was a bit of lead and brass  in one hole on the shell plate. I cleaned it out and no further problem!
Thanks Wills and Rooster!
NTB