Polishing vs. Cleaning Media

[kflach]

I have a new vibratory case tumbler. The instructions talk about using both cleaning media and polishing media.  I'd been told by a friend I should use Walnut media - I assume as cleaning media, but what should I use for polishing media? Also, do ya'll have any recommendations on cleaning - or polishing - solution to add to the media?

I'll be initially loading Holy Black in .38 Spl cases (I've already got a number of cases). Eventually I'll probably reload some of that heathen stuff. Come to think of it, some of the cases I have were rounds that had previously contained smokeless powder. Is there anything special I should do to prep those cases for Holy Black?

[Noz]

Go to the local pet store and buy lizard litter. It is crushed walnut hulls and is virtually identical to the much more expensive walnut tumbling media. Works just as well.
Tumble to clean and if some polishing occurs, good. Not necessary though. If you have to polish then corncob media is the way to go.

Ultimate is ceramic media in a rotary tumbler. Keep your eye out on e-bay for the tumbler. I got mine cheap-cheap-cheap.

[kflach]

I only need to polish if the cases are extremely dirty, right?

I've got cases from my first match that I didn't put into any kind of cleaning solution for a couple of weeks since I didn't know any better. They're *very* dirty, and when I finally put them into soapy water it didn't help much.

[Noz]

The walnut will clean them.

The lizard litter is not a joke.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy.

Kevin, you still need to wash the cases.  It will neutralize the harmful salts created by firing.

I use walnut shells media and a little stinkless (mostly) mineral spirits to clean my cases.  After cleaning, I use crushed corncob media and Midway - or Dillon - or ... case polish cream to polish them.  Makes them gleam.  Not like NEW, but clean and shiny.  They're a bit easier to find in the grass, etc. after they've ejected out from my rifle.

But I LIKE new-looking ammo.  Clean   is all that's required.  It helps keep your reloading dies from getting scratched inside and ultimately worn out.

If you want your cases to look new, the only way I know is to contact Dick Dastardly and get some ceramic media.  It ain't cheap and works best with a rotary type of tumbler.  Altogether, around $200 more than you have already spent. www.biglube.com

Remember, "Cleanliness is like ... well ... good!"

[kflach]

Thanks. I "learned better" after I'd shot my first box of 50 rounds through my rifle. I've brought the cases I've used since then home and immediately dumped them into hot soapy water and let them soak for several hours. I've read that some people even take a container of soapy water solution to matches and put their cases in it immediately after the match, for the drive home. Since I've got a two hour drive home from our matches that looks like something I'll incorporate into my 'flow.'

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks. I "learned better" after I'd shot my first box of 50 rounds through my rifle. I've brought the cases I've used since then home and immediately dumped them into hot soapy water and let them soak for several hours. I've read that some people even take a container of soapy water solution to matches and put their cases in it immediately after the match, for the drive home. Since I've got a two hour drive home from our matches that looks like something I'll incorporate into my 'flow.'

Good idea!


It'll work best if the cases are DRY after washing before you start the "tumbling" process.  Be sure to rinse WELL after using soap, by the way.  Most of us rinse numerous times until the water comes clean and all residue is gone.

Have fun, K!

[Dalton Masterson]

Well, I went beyond my judgement, and mixed walnut and corncob together, with a trickle of polish, and my brass comes out very nice now. This is in my 2 vibrating tumblers. It probably wears one of the medias out faster, but it seems to work better than just the one by iteself.

I do have a rotary and ceramic media from DD, but I have yet to sort out my brass and get some dirty ones in there to try it. Soon.

Btw, I will never use the red colored Tuf nut again. That stuff makes a mess with its red dust on everything.
DM

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Noz's suggestion about lizard litter is a good one.  By checking your fav pet shop, you can find both corncob AND walnut media... but watch out.  I bought some that stated it was corncob.  It was sealed, natch.  When I got it home, I found it was ground to the size of whole kernels, and totally useless!

As for the "Tuff Nut,"  from Lyman, I think, I was of the same opinion as Dalton M.  Used it once, saw the dust and put it away for years.  5-6 years later, I was hard up for cleaning media and had ONLY the Tuff Nut.  I added some mineral spirits and WOW!  It did great - perhaps the best EVER!  I think adding the M.S. was the key.  They were so clean and shiny that they didn't have to be polished after cleaning, like I usually do.

[Dalton Masterson]

SHB, I have been there with the litter too. I had some that was large enough it took about 3 pieces to completly jam up a 45 case, and then no cleaning took place.
DM

[john boy]

Kevin, might want to stop in at your closest Harbor Freight store ... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92150

[Two Rivers Marshal]

I bought some of the tuff nut a while back as my walnut media had to be replaced.  On its own, it just packed into the shells and left a mess.  I dumped it out and waited until I found the walnut back in stock.  I did find that a handful of the tuff nut along with the regular walnut made the cases look darn near brighter than new casings.  When it seems the cases are looking a bit dull I just add another cup of the tuf nut to the tumbler.

Highly polished don't shot any better, but it does make inspecting for cracks a little easier.

TRM

[litl rooster]

Been using lizard litter for about 4 years. less than $10 for 50 pounds at the pet store. You can get ground corn cobs cheaper at the feed mill if your so inclined. Recently started adding Dillon's brand of polishing compound. Seems to work better than other stuff I have used. I have a few pards that use rice in their tumblers and it works for them.


What other uses do any of you do with your vibator tumblers?  It's great on coins, if your not worried about the value of it.

[Dick Dastardly]

Properly loaded, Ceramic Porcelain media both cleans and polishes.  It does require an 8 hour break in period because it's a mite aggressive out of the box.

Some shakers can run CP media, but read your instructions.  It's run wet and you don't want water in your motor.  I use a Thumler AR-12 and am very happy with it.  I also have an RCBS Sidewinder and it does a good job too but it's far noisier.

Some advantages of CP media over others are that the cases get cleaner outside and in.  If you remove the primers first it will clean the primer pockets also.  CP media doesn't wear out.  CP media cleans faster than other media because it's a physical cleaner instead of chemical.  CP media doesn't rot or mildew if stored damp.

I use a Lyman shaker to dry my brass after tumbling in CP media.  I shake it out in a French Fry basket to separate out the media and loose most of the water and then dump it into the shaker with some old corn cob media to dry it.  You can do a hot water rinse after the brass comes out of the CP media and speed up the drying process.

I like reloading clean brass.  Case inspection is easier and better, the brass doesn't have dirt on it that can scratch my dies, the clean reloaded ammo runs smoother in my guns and the shiny brass is easier to recover at the match.

One more good use for CP media is cleaning/deburring gun parts.  I've found that after a good tumble my gun parts are smoother running.  I'm talking interior parts here, not frames or barrels.

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

When I first started reloading I bought a box of Lyman's crushed walnut shells for my tumbler. When it got too dirty I bought another box. Then I learned about Lizard Litter and never bought crushed walnut specifically for reloading again. Lizard litter is much cheaper and does a good job.

As has been stated, the purpose of cleaning cases is twofold. Most important is to wash away any fine grit than may have collected on the brass. Fine grit is very hard and will scratch your loading dies. Then the dies will scratch any piece of brass run through them. Your rifle brass is most likely to gather the grit when it hits the ground. If you unload your pistols at the loading table they are unlikely to pick up any grit, other than what they pick up when you dump them into the same bag with your spent rifle brass. So removing grit is the primary reason to tumble brass. Making it shiny is secondary. Shiny brass does not shoot any better than stained brass, it just looks nicer. And it is easier to find in the grass.

If you rinse your brass, you have already washed away the grit, and any further tumbling or polishing is simply cosmetic. In truth, you could reload your brass directly after rinsing and drying it, but most of us tumble it anyway. By the way, by rinsing your brass you have also washed away any nasty lead styphnate left over from the primers. Nasty stuff.

My practice with BP brass is to dump it into a jug of water back at my car after the match. I know a couple of guys who drag a jug of water around with them all day at the match, but that is unnecessary. As long as you get the brass in a rinse bath by the end of the day, that is plenty of time. Wait 24 hours though and your brass will probably be covered with green corrosion. My rinse jug has a squirt of dish soap in it, nothing more. Some guys like to add vinegar, I do not recommend it. Leave the brass in contact with vinegar too long and it will attack the brass, making it brittle.

We can talk chemistry all day here about neutralizing and stuff like that, but in fact what you are doing is loosening the solids left behind in the fouling and diluting it with lots of water. I have no idea whether or not BP fouling is acidic or basic, I have heard both claimed. Without knowing what you are dealing with, you cannot neutralize it. Diluting it with plenty of water is the key. So is keeping the solution agitated, that keeps the solids from settling back down onto the brass again. That's why my brass jug sits on the floor of the car on the way home, to keep the fouling in suspension. If the jug water is cloudy, the solids are in suspension and off the brass. If it is clear, the solids have settled back down again onto the brass. That's not what you want. When I get home I use my strainer to rinse the brass thoroughly. I just rinse it a few times until the water runs clear, that is all that is necessary. The fouling has been rinsed away.

Depending on how long my brass sits in it's jug, the brass will be more or less stained. I've sometimes left brass in the jug for weeks, before I got around to rinsing it off, and have wound up with some pretty black brass. It don't hurt it none, it just never gets clean and shiny again.

I do not use any polishing agents. Just rinse, dry, and tumble in lizard litter. That's it, I don't mind stained brass, it shoots just as well as shiny stuff does. I used to dry my brass on a cookie sheet covered with paper towels in the oven at about 200 degrees. These days I just let it air dry for a day or two.

No, you do not have to do anything special to brass that has been shot with Smokeless to prepare it for BP. Just tumble it and start loading it with BP.

Simple.

[kflach]

I tested out my Frankford Arsenal Quick-n-EZ Case Tumbler last night. I ran about 50 pieces of once-shot brass in some walnut media. I ran the tumbler for 20 minutes, just to see how the process worked.

Questions:
a). How long do I need to tumble? I've read everything from 30 minutes to 2 hours.

b). Am I correct in thinking the inside of the case doesn't have to be as clean as the outside?

c). I noticed as I sifted the media from the cases that there was a very fine powder floating up off of the media. Do I need to wash the cases (probably just water) again after I tumble them?

Note: I was at a gun supply store looking for other things (I'd planned on stopping at the pet store on the way home for lizard litter) and they had walnut media in plastic bags for less than the cost of a pack of cigarettes so I figured "what the heck" and bought some. There is no brand name on the bag so it's possible that it's homemade or they simply broke up a large bag of "brand name" media and were selling it in smaller bags to increase their profits. If this was a stupid idea let me know. I have no problem with the idea of throwing this stuff away and going to the pet store for lizard litter.

[Tascosa Joe]

Kevin:

I just checked out Petsmart for Lizard Litter.  It is 10# for 12.99.  Harbor Freight is 25# for 24.99.  25# will last a long long time.   If you want to split a bag we might figure that one out.  I am getting low on media. 

I always deprime my cases and then wash with dish soap and vinegar then rinse clean with tap water.  I have carried my jug to a match but not often, just to the regionals where I was shooting for 2 or 3 days.  I made a screen and pour the washed cases out and leave them over night to dry.  I always vibrate the cases after washing.  I have had problems with residue if I did not.  I have always used corn cobs, not for any particular reason, I just had a lot on hand.  I usually leave my cases in the viberator at least over night, but it depends on how dirty. 

I got a Thumbler Model B for Christmas, but have not ordered the CP from DD as yet but I am going to soon.  Probably after I get back from my next airplane ride to a place I never wanted to go.

[Noz]

Re: Dust on media. Hit the laundry room again. A used dryer sheet in every other run of your walnut will soak up most of the dust. Throw it away and get another used sheet.

[Driftwood Johnson]

questions:
a). How long do I need to tumble? I've read everything from 30 minutes to 2 hours.

I usually let mine run around two hours or so. You will be an expert on this real soon. Pretty soon you will know just how long you like to run your tumbler. One word of caution. I can usually hear my tumbler rumbling away in the basement. I usually start it running, then go upstairs to watch some TV. Plenty of times I have fallen asleep while watching TV and the tumbler keeps merrily working away for several hours. When I awake, I usually hear it rumbling away down stairs and go turn it off. Since it is an electric appliance with a motor there is always the remote chance that if left running unattended it could overheat and cause a fire. For that reason, I ALWAYS try to remember to shut it off before I go to bed. Putting it on a timer would not be a bad idea. Also, I don't know about yours but the vibration of mine tends to make it wander around. I have it 'captive' on a stand so it won't wander around.

b). Am I correct in thinking the inside of the case doesn't have to be as clean as the outside?

Yes, that is correct. Most media does not make it into the inside of the case too well, so it does not get real polished on the inside. The inside usually remains a little bit dark or stained. No problem

c). I noticed as I sifted the media from the cases that there was a very fine powder floating up off of the media. Do I need to wash the cases (probably just water) again after I tumble them?

No, don't wash them again. You'll just have to dry them again and waste more time. I don't worry about a little bit of dust on my cases, I just go ahead and start reloading them.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Kevin, you'll cut down dust (to nearly none) if your cleaning media gets a couple spoonfuls of mineral spirits, turpentine, brush cleaner (which is really mineral spirits), alcohol (denatured or rubbing - with no scent or oil), or similar liquid.  It helps keep down the dust AND cuts 'thru a bunch of excess powder residue grunge.

Now - with your polish (not Polish  ) media, the Dillon, Midway, Brasso, Simichrome etc. case polish (usually with a nice citrus smell and NO ammonia) will keep the dust down.  Ammonia will harden and/or make your brass brittle ...  Eventually ...  If you live long enough.       Seriously ... no  ammonia, thank you very glad.

Just use whatever solvent/polish you need for whichever media your using.  Make sure you run the "tumbler" for 5-10 minutes (or however long it takes) with no brass to thoroughly mix the stuff before  you add your cases to clean/polish for real.

You'll have a more harmonious outcome.  As DJ said, you'll soon be an expert.  It really ain't rocket surgery or brain science.


SHB