Texas Ranger leather 1870-80 timeframe question.

northwestgrizzly · January 10, 2010, 01:14:50 AM

First thing folks, I want to thank everyone for the vast amount of information provided on this web site. That however is part of my problem....

Being able to filter what I need is a bit daunting and I am asking for your assistance. I have spent considerable amount of my itty bitty brain power thinking reading and trying to decide on what leather I need for the persona I have decided to emulate. Thats where the title of this post comes into play. I am hoping that some of ya'll with more experience and know-how can post pictures of holster and gun-belt sets that are currently in-use based off of that time frame.
I would GREATLY GREATLY appreciate it. I think I have information overload and need to choose but am having difficulty. The pictures would help me by simply putting holster and gun belt types right in front of my nose. I understand its a bit bread-crumb trailesque but it would certainly help me at this point. Thanks folks!

GunClick Rick · January 10, 2010, 02:19:40 AM

If you go to http://www.cocheseleather.com You can see some different styles.I have severel different styles but all for different maker or folks,Be hard for the makers cuase they would have to make them first? Then you would have to buy it..What is bein you goin personage?

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northwestgrizzly · January 10, 2010, 05:48:44 AM

Quote from: GunClick Rick on January 10, 2010, 02:19:40 AM
If you go to http://www.cochiseleather.com You can see some different styles.I have severel different styles but all for different maker or folks,Be hard for the makers cuase they would have to make them first? Then you would have to buy it..What is bein you goin personage???

Thanks for the link GCR.

I finally decided on a "retired" Texas Ranger from the 1870-80 time period I mentioned. I say "retired" because I have....shall we say...expanded my girth since my youth.

So I need to know what's the name and a picture of the different holster style or styles they used. Initially when I got on this forum I was leaning towards a former-Cavaly Scout (I was one in the US Army) or a simple Cowboy. Well I like to read and I like history and that lead from one thing to another and I decided to try the persona of something completely different....the Texas Ranger.

I was doing some research on my home state of Texas and the area where I was born and raised. As a kid I always wanted to be a Texas Ranger (Who didn't?) and the combination of the nature of this sport, plus my birth state/town and they're longevity as towns in the state of Texas led me to this conclusion for a persona. I did some research and the area I am from is the Eastern part of Texas and a little town called Dekalb and I was born in the hospital of a bigger small town called Mt. Pleasant, both have as long of a history and more, than the state of Texas itself. That area is currently covered by "Co. B" of the Texas Rangers but I dont believe it was for the time period I am looking at, but I am not sure.

I need leather for the pistols that I have....dont have the money for new pistols, so the NRV and Taurus Gaucho I have will have to do for now, but I still need leather for them and thats where we are with my current picture request. Once I figure out what I want/need then I am going try and commission what I need/afford from some skilled leather worker off of this here CAScity web site. This is in hope that I can find a comparible quality to some the web sites I have visited but not pay as much. I can pay, but some of those rigs are seriously $$$$$$$$, ya know?

Slowhand Bob · January 10, 2010, 07:37:11 AM

Almost all the gun leather producers will turn out California Slim Jims and they are as accurate for the duration of the 'old west' as anything made. They were followed by the earliest Mexican Loop styles which actually resembled the Slim Jims greatly but with the addition of the full skirts through which the belt could be threaded. Im glad to say that the correct styles for the period can no wbe seen in many of our newer movies, especially those with Tom Selleck but in particular look for Clint Eastwood in OUTLAW JOSIE WALES and also check out the old Rangers in LONESOME DOVE.

Two lines of thought here, buy one of the shiny new rigs and look like you just left the emporium with your new rig for a spell, while it gets broken in and aged. Another idea is to get one of the rigs produced by a holster maker who finishes them to look just like you are nearing the end of a long hard trail drive, with leather that already shows its age when you get it. Lots of good stuff out there but this has a look all its own http://www.wrtcleather.com/ and serves as a great art gallery to boot. Just for information, there is no abuse involved in the aging process used by a good leather worker.

Even if one never intends to try one leather project, I would recommend the Wild Rose How-To DVDs, just so a gun person understands what goes into the production of his gun leather. I own at least one good gunsmithing DVD for each gun model I own, where available, and I certainly do nothing beyond cleaning my guns.

Gun Butcher · January 10, 2010, 08:20:41 AM

Grizz, I'm not much of an expert on the Rangers but if you will google "Capt. Baylors " website I think you will see just what you are looking for. He is quite knowledgable on the subject of Texas Rangers and its a great site just for looking.

outrider · January 10, 2010, 09:07:11 AM

Grizz, you may want to refer to the book "Packin Iron"...there are several holsters in the book that were made by saddle makers from Texas...also, go to Will ghormley's site (willghormley_maker.com) and look at the designs he has. There are alot of subtle differences between designs depending on what region of the west you came from....as previously noted by my compadres, the basic two designs are the Slim Jims (California pattern) and the Mexican drop loop

WaddWatsonEllis · January 10, 2010, 10:29:47 AM

Grizzly,

As a retread Texan (I was born in San Antonio and my mother's family goes back to the late 1860s near Dilly (about 20 miles SW of San Antonio).

Although the museum is in Waco, which can feel like going to another country from where you are, you can go online to do research through the Texas Ranger Museum .... and here is their website:

http://www.texasranger.org/

There is a way to do onsite research on their page, and a contact email address where you can explain what you are looking for ... it will probably take them a bit to get back to you, but I think you will most likely recieve more info than what you actually want.

I have had the distinct pleasure (and it has been and continues to be a pleasure) of dealing with Mr Ghormley and Mr Burrows, and was amazed at their knowledge of the time and the rigs in use at the time. I would suggest emailing both of them to get their ideas and perhaps a quote on what you need ...

Texas Rangers had to buy their own rigs, pistols, and ammo .... it is quite possible for a retired ranger to still have a cap and ball pistol and rig ... threre were probably as many 1851 and 1860 Colts in the west at that time than there were SAA Colts ... so I would think that you have your options wide open ....

I also would think that what type of gun and barrel length you are going to use before you contact anyone other than the museum ... because that selection is going to drive the type of holster and rig you will be getting ....

BTW, I was able to order a used copy of 'Packing Iron' from Amazon for not too much money, and/or you can probably get one from your library (I had to order one from the San Jose Library system, but after all this is California ... LOL ... I would not be surprise if your local library had a copy down there in Texas)

GunClick Rick · January 10, 2010, 12:15:47 PM

These guys here know alot more about such than i do,glad they chimed in..I know one thing for sure though,this is the first place i'd go to look to get leather..

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 10, 2010, 12:39:57 PM

"Texas Rangers had to buy their own rigs, pistols, and ammo .... it is quite possible for a retired ranger to still have a cap and ball pistol and rig ... threre were probably as many 1851 and 1860 Colts in the west at that time than there were SAA Colts ... so I would think that you have your options wide open ...." (WWE)

I believe rangers were well paid, and I doubt that any of them would be shy about obtaining the best armament possible as it came along. Sheriff Wilson talks about rangers buying up the new .30 Winchester rifles as soon as they arrived in town.

My thoughts are that rangers would use the popular style of the time. In West Texas, many patronized El Paso Saddlery, which is still in business using original patterns. The baddies, like Wes Hardin, also used their rigs.

http://www.epsaddlery.com/c-10-western.aspx

Rio Grande for 1870s & 1880 for thereabouts

GunClick Rick · January 10, 2010, 05:39:43 PM

Interesting!!

WaddWatsonEllis · January 10, 2010, 11:08:08 PM

Sir Charles,

All very true ... but in spite of their pay at the time, they would still be responsible for their gun, gunbelt and holster, saddle, etc. It did come out of their pay ....

And as far as the Rangers owning the newest stuff, well that would be true too.

But Grizzly was talking about the persona of a retired Texas Ranger ... and if he had managed to squirrel away enough for a small spread and a few cows, he might be considered about as wealthy as any sodbuster, with most of his money tied up in his land and livestock ... and if he had retired pre-1875-1880, he might be trying to stretch a couple of dollars with an old cap n ball or 1851-1860 conversion to cartridge ...

And I would bring up the old saw that Wild Bill Hickock was still wearing those 1851 Colt Navy .36 Caibers when he was assasinated by Jack McCall in 1876 ... and I think he would qualify as a 'retired lawman' ...
Times were tough and there was very little money in post-Civil War Texas. Until the Railroad made its way into Northern Texas, and the price of beef plummeted after the Civil War until they started needing it to feed the troops fighting the Indian Wars ....

So I think that they could be still carrying a conversion cap n ball or spent a months wages for a new Colt ...

GunClick Rick · January 11, 2010, 12:02:44 AM

Anything in here?

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/Historic.htm

northwestgrizzly · January 11, 2010, 04:15:25 AM

Some of this information I have seen and some not, so thanks to all for your input....thats brainstorning at its best. I have found a couple of designs and I will deside between them.

Next question....any leather worker willing to make some money? Some of the rigs from the links posted are just waaaaaay to outta my range. I am not looking for mass amounts of tooling or concho's from hell, just a basic amount of tooling and good quality work.

I'll make sure I post up the rig design I am looking for and go from there. Thank you all again.

Texas John Ringo · January 11, 2010, 07:41:30 AM

Hey Northwestgrizzly,
Somewhat off-topic, but I'm from East Texas also. Texarkana, born and bred. Live between Queen City and Bloomberg TX for the last 4 years. Lived in Texarkana for most of my life(west Texas for 4 years, '53 -'57)
Know exactly where Dekalb and Mt. Pleasant are, matter of fact I drive thru Dekalb on a regular basis going to English to shoot at the BadLands Bar 3 SASS club.
Hope you find what you are looking for.

TX J Ringo

GunClick Rick · January 11, 2010, 09:09:08 AM

Don't tell me you play banjo $:-\$

Slowhand Bob · January 11, 2010, 09:14:08 AM

I know where you are coming from on the price thing. Some of our guys are true artists and that will always require a great deal more time and expense for them to bring a product to you. That said, give us a price range that you feel comfortable with and I am sure you will find someone here who can work it out with you, within reason.

Dalton Masterson · January 11, 2010, 09:41:36 AM

Yep, show us your design you want, and any of us will probably be able to help you out.

If you go thru the many many pages of the "show your stuff" thread at the top of the forum, you can start to sort out a few favorite makers to meet your needs.

DM

northwestgrizzly · January 11, 2010, 10:59:20 AM

Quote from: Texas John Ringo on January 11, 2010, 07:41:30 AM
Hey Northwestgrizzly,
Somewhat off-topic, but I'm from East Texas also. Texarkana, born and bred.
TX J Ringo

JR, I havent been back home for a few years. Right now I am in the great Pacific NW (WA state) and having that persona will make me feel a little more at home. My Papa and Mamah died and are buried there in Dekalb many years ago and I really need to get back home and visit.

Quote from: Slowhand Bob on January 11, 2010, 09:14:08 AM
That said, give us a price range that you feel comfortable with and I am sure you will find someone here who can work it out with you, within reason.

I am looking around $250-$300 I definitely cant go any more than that without gettign skinned alive!!!

Quote from: Dalton Masterson on January 11, 2010, 09:41:36 AM
Yep, show us your design you want, and any of us will probably be able to help you out.

If you go thru the many many pages of the "show your stuff" thread at the top of the forum, you can start to sort out a few favorite makers to meet your needs.

DM

The post up your stuff thread is actually one of the things that got me a little on the confused side. So much to pick from and so many examples that I ended up glutting myself and then losing track of what I needed after looking at everything. I am gonna post up some examples of what I have chosen here in a few minutes and go from there. Thanks folks!

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 11, 2010, 11:54:58 AM

NWG, I suggest the best way to go about this, so this thread doesn't turn into a bidding thing, Which we can't have on the forum, would be to PM the maker you might be interested in, you can go ahead and post the type rig your interested in, then our Leathersmiths can PM you if they feel they can help you with this. Post a picture of your new gun leather when you get it, we like pictures around here.

Regards

tEN wOLVES

northwestgrizzly · January 11, 2010, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on January 11, 2010, 11:54:58 AM
NWG, I suggest the best way to go about this, so this thread doesn't turn into a bidding thing, Which we can't have on the forum, would be to PM the maker you might be interested in, you can go ahead and post the type rig your interested in, then our Leathersmiths can PM you if they feel they can help you with this. Post a picture of your new gun leather when you get it, we like pictures around here.

Regards

tEN wOLVES

Yes I agree, thats a great idea. I got a little sidetracked looking at different rigs. I need to get focused...