Beware of load data

Silver_Rings · January 07, 2010, 09:53:35 AM

I emailed Alliant Powder just before Christmas asking for a load for 45-60 with a lead bullet in the 300 - 350 gr range using RL-7. I got a response 1/6/10 and the load data they gave me was incorrect. They said they founded it in a Lyman manual for a 330 gr bullet. When I checked the Lyman manual I found the load is for 45-70 for 1885 Win and Ruger lever action. I am sure it would be an over load in the 45-60.

So even when you get a load from the powder company, check it against other sources.

SR

Joe Lansing · January 07, 2010, 12:54:38 PM

THANKS and DITTO!

J.L.

Grizzly Adams · January 07, 2010, 07:02:40 PM

Quote from: Silver_Rings on January 07, 2010, 09:53:35 AM
I emailed Alliant Powder just before Christmas asking for a load for 45-60 with a lead bullet in the 300 - 350 gr range using RL-7. I got a response 1/6/10 and the load data they gave me was incorrect. They said they founded it in a Lyman manual for a 330 gr bullet. When I checked the Lyman manual I found the load is for 45-70 for 1885 Win and Ruger lever action. I am sure it would be an over load in the 45-60.

So even when you get a load from the powder company, check it against other sources.

SR

Yikes!

Thanks for the heads up, Silver Rings. This is something we all need to be very careful about. I often see load recommendations from well meaning folks who just don't hear the 5 in 45-75 or hear 70 instead of 60.

mtmarfield · January 07, 2010, 09:06:26 PM

Greetings!

Double - Yikes! The BP Believer that I am, I like the idea of safe 'smokeless' loads, too. I would advise that we not only clearly articulate the cartridge, but also throw in; "... for the 1876 Winchester Centennial Replica."
Bravo to You for double-checking!!!

Be Well, All!

M.T.Mrfield

john boy · January 08, 2010, 02:58:13 PM

SR ... this may help:
Cartridges of the World has 25gn of 4198 for the 45-60 using a 300gn bullet.
The RQ for Reloder 7 is 112 and the RQ's for both 4198's are 108 & 109. The burn rates for RL7 and 4198's similar.
If it was me, I would work the powder charge up in 1/2gn's starting at 23gns Reloader 7 not to exceed 25gns

Then again, you could use 60 - 70gns of original gunpowder with not one worry!

Dirty Brass · January 08, 2010, 05:15:35 PM

You didn't post the load info they sent you - would you mind passing it on here?

Silver_Rings · January 09, 2010, 09:55:52 AM

I didn't post the load data because I didn't want some one using it.

SR

Silver_Rings · January 09, 2010, 09:59:07 AM

I did reply to the Email from the powder company and let them know of the error. They responded and apologized for the error, said he thought it was for 45-70. In my original email to them I had said 45-60 for a repro 1876.

SR

Delmonico · January 09, 2010, 10:07:33 AM

Quote from: Dirty Brass on January 08, 2010, 05:15:35 PM
You didn't post the load info they sent you - would you mind passing it on here?

Why would anyone do that?

If you want Ruger #1 data go look it up.

Dirty Brass · January 09, 2010, 01:50:35 PM

If I wanted Ruger #1 info, I would, and have, looked it up, along with 45/70 loads for 1886 and 1895 rifles. Others out there just MAY have gotten that same bad info as Silver-Rings, so i thought it would be nice to let us know which data was bad/wrong - so far all I read is he said/she said - no facts.....didn't mean to stir up the pot. I did ask nicely

Delmonico · January 09, 2010, 01:52:59 PM

So did I, but I guess you don't see it that way.

BTW when I ask something in a nasty manner there is no mistaking it.

Dirty Brass · January 10, 2010, 10:06:15 AM

Yes, I think we all are aware of that - thanks.

Time to get back to the topic......

Delmonico · January 10, 2010, 11:54:15 AM

Quote from: Silver_Rings on January 07, 2010, 09:53:35 AM

So even when you get a load from the powder company, check it against other sources.

This is the main information in this thread. Never use loading data, no matter the source with out cross checking with a couple other reliable sources, typo errors are easy to do.

In this case since there are not a lot of sources for this round, the check is still simple, go to a couple other sources and check that weight bullet against the same powder in data for the Trapdoor in 45-70 since you are wanting about the same pressure level. The data for the 45-60 should use about 15-20% less of the same powder to give the same pressures. The 45-75 would be about the same. (Don't use this as a guide to develope ones own data though,) This way there is no need to post dangerous load data on a public forum where even tough slight, the chance of someone using the wrong data is totally eliminated. Loading safety is up to the loader.

john boy · January 10, 2010, 09:02:39 PM

D, with Lyman lacking many of the smokeless powder charges for the the 'Obsolete Calibers', Cartridges of the World is an excellent reference book to have in ones library. And for black powder charges, after Hodgdon bought out Goex and put up the 'new' loading data for black powder, this has to be a one stop shopping spot for information ... http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

IMHO, between these 2 sources, never a worry finding the correct information and Lyman's Handbook as the 3rd source

larryo_1 · January 10, 2010, 09:48:28 PM

John Boy:
Don't forget the work done by Ken Waters. I got that humungus book of his and there are some good write ups on these calibers. Alot of them mirror what you have said.

Silver_Rings · January 11, 2010, 04:52:00 PM

John Boy, thanks for the suggestions on a starting load for RL-7.

Dirty Brass, the fellow at Alliant emailed me he had made a mistake and had given me a load for a 45-70 from Lyman's manual #49.
He made an honest mistake, that is easy to do.

SR

Dirty Brass · January 11, 2010, 08:05:00 PM

Thanks for adding that bit of info Silver_Rings. It's refreshing to know that these fellas double check the info they hand out too, (just as we all should double check any data we use), and he followed up when a mistake was made. Glad no harm came from it.

john boy · January 12, 2010, 03:15:05 PM

Gents, would say other powder vendors make mistakes too. Read this email exchange from the Bottom UP:
(PS: The loading data link is since - long gone!

From: Help Account [Hpchelp@hodgdon.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 1:56 PM
To: JR Corney
Subject: RE: Follow Up ...RE: Triple Seven Recipe for 30-30Win
OK, now I look like quite the idiot. I discussed it with our black powder gurus here, and they agreed that it is not a good idea, that said the folks in the lab shot it, and it worked ok. So I guess it would be fine. Sorry for the confusion, I have no other excuses.
Thanks,
Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: JR Corney [mailto:corney@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 7:25 PM
To: Help Account
Subject: Follow Up ...RE: Triple Seven Recipe for 30-30Win

Mr Hodgdon: If H777 is not recommended for a 30/30 case, why then is there a recipe on your website for a 160gr Cast LRN at http://www.hodgdon.com/data/tripleseven/cartridge-2f.php#top ? My intention was to use a 165gr cast RNFP bullet using 40gr vol of H777.
Regards
John Corney

-----Original Message-----
From: Help Account [mailto:Hpchelp@hodgdon.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:52 PM
To: JR Corney
Subject: RE: Triple Seven Recipe for 30-30Win

We would not recommend the use of 777 in the 30/30 case..
Thanks,
Phil Hodgdon

-----Original Message-----
From: JR Corney [mailto:corney@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:02 PM
To: Help Account
Subject: Triple Seven Recipe for 30-30Win

Hi Folks: In CAS, I use a 30-30 Winchester with 165gr lead RNFP bullets. Is there a recipe for this load using Triple 777?

Thank You
John Corney