To Line or not to Line, That is the Question

[JD Alan]

Howdy friends. I just read on the Show yer Stuff thread about Arizona Cattleman and his Slim Jim's. He experienced what I'm sure many others have at one time or another; tight fits on holsters after they were lined. It seems the culprit was not adding enough to the pattern size to accommodate the extra leather. 10 Wolves gave him some valuable info in how much to add for a certain size of leather, and that's helpful.

Since it's been a tad slow around here anyway, I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of lining holsters and belts. It would be a helpful conversation for guys like AC and this JD character; guys who are trying to gain some wisdom from the guys with experience.

I know from reading threads who some the guys are that don't generally line holsters and some that do. I'm wondering why you've come to that decision. Being "Period Correct" seems to be an issue, and I certainly respect that. I'm wondering what other reasons there are out there.

I know from experience that it's a lot more work. At least with my experience, the lined holsters seem to hold their shape better, which is a nice feature when reholstering in CAS.

So, Do you or don't you, and why? Thanks for helping out someone who still feels like a new guy, JD       

[Kid Terico]

Well here goes nothing. I dont on the old period looking rigs  and just for that reason. They do not look near as refined.As you know I make every style so I do all types of unlined and lined On my new looking rigs and personal carry holsters I wouldnt make one that was not lined. You put a expensive revolver in the holster I want as good a finish that I can get. I like more leather to form and hold it holds its  shapebetter . It gives a total diffefent look. More finished.The down side is it take three times as long when sewing by hand. I make my belts 5" contured and the conture takes twice as much leather as a straight belt. Now line it and u use 4 times as mush, so your cost just went up by 4. On the holster by 2. So I think cost and time play a large part in it.What I feel it breaks down to is you make the rig for the occasion you want it for.Like every thing else every one has there likes and dislikes. Just my 2 cents worth. KT

[Springfield Slim]

Kid nailed it, I couldn't charge enough to make it worth hand sewing a holster or belt. Well, actually I could be no one would pay it, and I wouldn't blame them. Plus I don't like the look, being the more period correct kinda guy I am. As for holding it's shape, as long as I use good quality 10 oz leather I haven't had a problem with my holsters, and I shoot 2-3 times a month. Just don't squash them under your other gear when storing them.

[Dalton Masterson]

I agree with the above comments already. I have made a few lined holsters, and I just dont like the feel of them. They feel like there is a little more drag than the unlined ones that I have smoothed out and rubbed smooth inside.
So to me, the extra effort does not make enough reward to make it feasible to do.

If someone is paying me to do it, and it is an agreed upon price, then yes, I will line, but I usually try to dissuade them from it with generalized cussing, hat stomping, ear pulling, biting, etc. 

I handsew everything, so I make them pay for that time, if they really really want lining. I wont make a lined belt, and will send the customer elsewhere if they have to have one.

DM (who doesnt care for lining)

[JD Alan]

Thanks for the feedback so far, it's great. Springfield Slim, I went to your website; you have good looking stuff! Hoestly it seems to me that your shotgun slides are UNDER priced for what you are offering. Just my opinion.

Now I hope to hear from some pro-lining rig guys to see what they say. Thanks all for the education!

[cowboywc]

DM
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel
WC

[Dalton Masterson]

Hey, did I mention I dont like to line belts and holsters??

DM

[Dave Cole]

Since the majority of my work involves inlay's, I always line my holsters and belts, unless requested not to, which is rare.I think it gives a better overall appearance, even though it may not be PC.Also whether or I not I line something I always make a habit of dyeing and sealing the inside of my holsters and sheaths.Dave

[Ned Buckshot]

I line all my holsters and belts, never done one without. I do this for several reasons I suppose, I believe it helps save the finish of the firearm put in it, I believe it helps keep the belt in place, it helps provide a very profesional look and feel and it just rounds out a custom made rig. Heck I've even been known to line rifle scabbards and knife sheaths before!

And I have ALWAYS hand stitched every thing. Yes it's alot of work but again I think it's a hallmark of custom built. I have no clue how much I have stitched but it would most definatly be measured in miles after all this time.

These are just my opinions for anyone to take or leave as they wish.

Ned

[JD Alan]

Thanks Dalton you did exactly what I hoped people would do. You staked out your position very well.

Thanks Dave & Ned for sharing your experiences and perspectives

I assumed this would come down, at least to some degree if you are working towards more of period correct look, as opposed to more of a modern, maybe TV cowboy look.

I have some experience in what other people use for leather, because when I've traveled to other shoots, I pay close attention to what type of holster rigs they are using. The people I shoot with, and most other places I've gone to for SASS or Western 3 Gun events use holster rigs that are of a more modern design, and most of the ones I see are lined. However that's just my limited experience, and I've never gone to a major SASS event, like EOT.         

Every guy at my club that has asked about a holster has specifically asked if I could line it.

And the Beat goes on!

WC 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy All

    Well JD has come up with another good topic, my feelings on this are neutral, I guess you could call me a lover of anything western and all the styles and periods, when I shot in Quick Draw comp. in the 60's, I insisted on a lined/ and steel lined holster, and it had to be smooth leather , not suede, our holsters then were of the Hollywood design, and built for that game, that's why you see/saw hammer thongs on all the rigs back then, because the guns fit loosely and would fall out under active conditions, I also liked a smooth cow hide lining, on my belts, I had pards back then that some of them used suede, and they got dirty real quick, and with some that even rotted, although I do own a suede lined holster and gun belt that I had Alfonso Penada make for me, but I prefer smooth leather lined or no lining at all, I'm not one to worry about the guns finish, in fact I won't own a gun that I have to worry about the finish, But either way in all the 48 years I've been shooting sixguns,  I personally haven't been shown that suede protects better, I have found that suede will hold dirt and grim and gun powder/ lead shavings and after a while the suede becomes your enemy, no more protection that a none lined holster, on the other hand a smooth lined holster won't collect the dirt crime powder and lead shavings, and when coated with a good finish like Tan-Kote or some of the other clear coatings, you can just blow it out or wipe it out, a smooth lined holster makes for the smoothest draw and reholster, provided it was wet molded to the gun properly.
  Now a unlined holster, which is what was most used in the period, was meant to hold the gun in, even if you were upside down for some reason, that's what the holster was supposed to do, no hammer thongs were used, unless the owner had a smaller gun than the holster was meant to hold, then the thong would have been a help. There is just something nice about the feel of a unlined holster, and as already stated, when made of 9 to 10 ounce leather and wet molded properly, the holster will keep it shape indefinitely, what messes up unlined holsters/or any holster that isn't STEEL lined is miss use, putting the holster in a trunk with stuff piled on top, if you crush a holster and leave it that way long enough, it's going to stay, we all have to remember, that leather has MEMORY, so hang your rig up and keep it safe, and it will provide many years of comfort and use for you, I like to keep my gun leather in the same environment I live in myself, leather needs to BREATH.
   So as you can see I like them all, after I learned how to sew, and Ace made me a sewing mule, sewing isn't a problem, and it gets me more money for my efforts, I like a lined belt, I have several that are over 40 years old, the main body's seem to hold up even if the chaf and billet wear out, I find my most comfortable belts are the money belt, these are also easier to sew because you are just sewing one side.
   If I make a unlined gun belt, I try to stay with the thicker leather, between 12 and 14 ounce, after dyeing, I will use a good conditioner to soften and loosen it up a little, as you all know , you can smooth up the back side/flesh side.
   And finally if you decide to line a holster, that you have been making unlined, as a rule, and you're using the same pattern, then make sure you add to the width , if the combined weight of the leather ( front side and liner )  equal the same weight you were using as unlined  then just add about 1/4" to both sides of the bucket, if the leather is going to be thicker, then add more, it's better to have more, than to sew it up and find your gun won't fit, or is so tight it won't loosen up even with jug of Lexoil and a crow bar.

                Well that's all I think I know  


                     Regards

                  tEN wOLVES    

[Kid Terico]

TW Thanks , as always very informative. KT

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I seldom line mine. I like the look of them unlined. Both ways are historically correct so it just boils down to preference. I wet mold them so they fit properly and I've never had a pistol fall out and the holsters are as fast as you would like. A good mold job on 8-9 oz leather holds the shape fine and like Slim said, don't store other things on top of them.

[Arizona Cattleman]

As far as period correct, I think most shootings were done when the victim least expected it or with a rifle.  The holster was a device that allowed you to carry a gun for protection and ammunition.  A fast draw wasn't neccessary and shooting straight was more important.  Cowboys of the day probably could not afford the extra expense of a lined holster.  I agree after doing both now, and I am no expert, I like the feel of the unlined holster.

AC

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Well said AC, the holster wasn't used as the fast draw we see in the movies, so much as a method to carry the revolver around, along with the ammo one might need, also as you point out, the rifle was most likely the weapon of choice when there was any distance involved, I still like both options, and enjoy them both, LINED OR UNLINED I'm happy either way.

           tEN wOLVES 

[Kid Terico]

TW I see where you say 12-14 oz . leather and Marshall says 8-9 oz I my self use 8-10 on unlined. Is there a special reason you go so heavy? KT

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

        Terry I was referring to the gun belt with the 12/14 ounce leather, and unlined I fined it it holds up real well, and it is nice and soft if treated with Lexoil conditioner, before oiled and finished, for holsters I use 8/10 ounce leather when unlined.


                     tEN 

[Kid Terico]

Thanks I agree, I also use it on the belt, misunderstod, thought you meant holster. KT

[JD Alan]

Well, this is exactly what I was hoping for, a lively discussion on the subject.

I hope some more guys weigh in with their opinions and experiences, but great info so far. Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread. JD

[Gun Butcher]

  JD,  Very good thread. Now on to the main course.
Since most of the stuff I make has been for my own use lining has not been in the equation. It is to time consuming and the cost, for me at least is, over the top.
I  am not entirely convinced that their is any evidence that lining helps save a firearm that much. Oh, I know thats going to cause an uproar but we are talking about people who take extremely good care of their rigs to start with and keep their guns spotless so their is no chance for grit to get inside the holster and cause wear.
Yes it looks really nice and yes if you are into speed it "might " be faster But for me it just isn't in the cards.
Like Dalton I always dye the inside of a holster and the back of a belt and then slick them up with some kind of concoction and then keep them clean.