Knife Sheath & Holster Controversy by Bob Boze Bell

[Shotgun Steve]

This discussion is pretty interesting and has some great pictures also. Click the link scroll down and Enjoy Pards.

Shotgun Steve
http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/knife-sheath-amp-holster

[Frenchie]

I recall a similar discussion on the Civil War Reenactors Forum on the "proper" way to wear a kepi, forage or fatigue cap; the best answer was "comfortable". Study any period long enough and you'll come to the realization that when you say "never" or "always", someone will find documentation that proves you wrong.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

... you'll come to the realization that when you say "never" or "always", someone will find documentation that proves you wrong.

Yup.  As I often tell folks, "Never say 'never', and always avoid saying 'always.'"

I seem to remember (from somewhere) that the subject knife/pistol arrangement was fairly common among the Texas Rangers.  I definitely see the utility in such an arrangement.  For one, the knife is likely to get more regular and frequent use than the pistol.  Another is that the knife handle and pistol butt don't get in each other's way.  My personal preference is that the knife be positioned behind the hip joint rather than in front, for safety's sake.

POSTSCRIPT:

Two of the pics in Bell's article were previously on Capt. George Baylor's website, along with several others depicting the same knife/pistol arrangement. http://www.curtrich.com/gs.txrangcost1.html

Baylor's site, therefore, appears to be the"somewhere" I referrred to earlier.

[Montana Slim]

Looks like a cool way to wear / show off your fine, manly accessories......I'd consider this myself if I was posing for a photo.
Could be what those gents were thinking, too 

Regards,
Slim

[Dr. Bob]

Man Oh Man!  Those are some fine looking plaid pants!!

[northwestgrizzly]

Fascinating. Gotta love it!

[Delmonico]

Man Oh Man!  Those are some fine looking plaid pants!!

Guess we both like them.

[Delmonico]

As for the controversy, guess the folks in the pictures didn't ask the modern experts first afore they did it.   Nuff said, wonder if anyone from CAS-City was one of the nay sayers, would not surprise me. 

(BTW id the shoe don't fit, don't try to wear it.)

[Texas Lawdog]

Real Men Wear Plaid!

[James Hunt]

In my reading I do not recall a single instance of someone describing this is how we wore our knife on our pistol belt, not unexpected since it was probably so common a task that no one thought anyone would be so stupid as to ask the question a hundred years later. Well stupidly, I always wondered about those photos. Initially I was given to think, photographer arrangements, no different than having them shove their hats back upon their head, why not have them display all of their weapons for my photo. But there is that one photo that seems less than staged. And that suggests that they might have worn it that way.

However, you don't see that knife/holster arrangement elsewhere that I recall - was this something that was unique for a brief period of time with Texas Rangers alone? Was it regional seen only on the Texas border? I was always fascinated with it and so one year at the NCOWS nationals I wore a butcher style knife on the same side as my 7 1/2 inch SAA for three days. That bit of experimental archeology seemed to tell me that it was really neither any more functional nor was it any more comfortable, in fact it was less than comfortable.

Wearing it either side seems to balance the belt somewhat, wearing it both together, particularly when cross draw (and no I was not farbing out with a canted holster) seemed to put a lot of heavy stuff in one place for three days. Now three days is not a term of service, but it is an indicator that if I tried it I would probably quickly go back to the more balanced way of carrying it.

To me I see it limited to one group of fella's with but one photo seemingly not arranged by a photographer. To me it seems less than common on the frontier with the arrangement still in question pending further evidence.

Of course as a practical Yankee how can one account for a Texan's mindset, I mean these guy's still aren't sure they are a part of the Union. 

[Shotgun Franklin]

I can promise you that he considered the rifle in his hand his primary gun. You have or use a handgun when for whatever reason you can't get to the rifle.

[kflach]

James,

It's not that we Texans aren't sure we're a part of the Union. It's that we're not always sure we want to let the Union continue to be a part of us.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

James,

It's not that we Texans aren't sure we're a part of the Union. It's that we're not always sure we want to let the Union continue to be a part of us.

Actually, according to your state tourism folks -- "Texas: its like a whole other country!"   

[Dr. Bob]

Were knives in the period really that heavy?  Seems that they got noticeably smaller after the ACW.  The period knife that I carry weighs way less than 1 pound.  I'm asking a question here, not criticising anyone!

[James Hunt]

Ah, ah..., I felt those slings and arrows directed my way Dr. Bob. 

Actually when I wore my knife and gun on the same side for three day's I guess it wasn't so much heavy as awkward, everything just sort of hung in that one spot perhaps giving me the impression of heavy. I didn't like it at any rate. Again, it is interesting that these images seem pretty much related to this area or group, does this mean it was only used by them? I confess that I tried it because no one else was doing it and it seemed initially to have a rather large cool factor. But I wouldn't do it again. Any one with further information on this "technique" particularly if used in another region would be providing interesting stuff.

[Tascosa Joe]

Following James' experimental archeology, I too have experimented with the knife in front and behind the pistol holster.  I carry a somewhat smaller knife than James is fond of though.  A thought has come to mind that may have something to do with this arrangement:  Texas Cowboys tend to rope tied hard and fast.  When I first started cowboying I too roped tied hard and fast.  After being jerked down, I started teaching myself to dally rope.  The knife in front of your holster would be very easy to grab if you were in a wreck and needed to cut your larriat and get loose from the bovine beast at the other end.  Like I say just a thought.

T-Joe

[James Hunt]

Hmmm...., that is pretty good conjecture. If right handed, the knife should be on the left hip so that you could grab it since your reins are in your left hand and you have just released the rope. If your pistol was on the left also then you'd have to place your knife in front of it. Does that mean the unposed image of the fella with it on his right hip is left handed?

Good conjecture awaiting historical evidence. Or, then again if you care to chase a steer through the mesquite tied hard and fast again, to test the efficacy of your theory you understand, .... well I think we would all accept that as confirmation.  

Please provide video.

By the way I am surprised that a Texan would ever admit that a Yankee was packing bigger equipment! 

[River City John]

By the way I am surprised that a Texan would ever admit that a Yankee was packing bigger equipment! 

[Tascosa Joe]

Hmmm...., that is pretty good conjecture. If right handed, the knife should be on the left hip so that you could grab it since your reins are in your left hand and you have just released the rope. If your pistol was on the left also then you'd have to place your knife in front of it. Does that mean the unposed image of the fella with it on his right hip is left handed?

Good conjecture awaiting historical evidence. Or, then again if you care to chase a steer through the mesquite tied hard and fast again, to test the efficacy of your theory you understand, .... well I think we would all accept that as confirmation.  

Please provide video.

By the way I am surprised that a Texan would ever admit that a Yankee was packing bigger equipment! 

Your not a yankee you are a transplanted Canuck so there!

Any way I think big knives get in the way.  A six inch blade will do anything a bigger knife can do except maybe parry a sword?  I was looking thru the Pictorial History of the Texas Rangers, it was originally published with a Colt Commerative about 1970 or so.  I could afford the book not the set of Colt's that came with it.  There are several more pictures of the Rangers' carrying knives in front of their holster.  There are several pictures of Ranger's carring the knife opposite the pistol.  Once again personal preferance.   I think they are right handed even with my
idea of easy to get to horse back.  Most folks rode using the left hand for reins, the thru the rope or used a firearm.  I think the right hand being free near the knife and pistol would be a good solution.

I dont ride anymore cause I dont want to fall off.  As I said before I envy you and OCB for still being horse back at our age.

[James Hunt]

So I think you're saying...., it's not the length of the knife but how you use it?  

Additional pictures would seem to suggest they were all taken by the same photographer who was trying to make a statement, or it was relatively common method of carry at least for that group or that region. It would be interesting to know the answer given that the images we have are regional at this point. What did these guy's know that others didn't, or was this just something that was perhaps a style for young men of the period, or was it functional. Maybe this is on the order of wrist cuffs which no one can discern if they were functional, decorative or both. Whatever, we may never know, perhaps we are left with conjecture.