going black

[boot strap jack]

I was thinking about trying to load up some 45's with black. Do I need an over powder wad or not. I have shot app in 45 70 with out wad, with out problems. I have shot many muzzle loaders and cap and ball. The cleaning thing don't bother me at all. I worry about leading with the heat of black with out wad to act as gas check. I know that mlr don't need wads so, do cartridges. I love shooting my walker and 1851 with black. I have seen the home lube topic, so that is covered. I shoot 250 gr bullets, will probly try big lube ones later, as I have run into the hard fouling on mlr with out enough lube.
BSJ

[Fingers McGee]

I was thinking about trying to load up some 45's with black. Do I need an over powder wad or not.

Use of an over powder wad/card is not needed for 45Colt.  Just fill the case & jam a bullet on top.

[boot strap jack]

That is what I sorta thought. So does the wad just act as filler?
Thanks for the reply.
BSJ

[litl rooster]

yep

[Deadguy]

A wad in a .45 Colt case is only needed if you are not properly filling the case to the top with powder, it would be there to take up space.  If you are filling it up as originally intended, no wad is needed.  Proper black powder friendly lube on the bullet is required, of course.

[Dick Dastardly]

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,82.0.html

Here's enough good information to last till long after Santa comes.  Read the stuff in the Dark Arts library.  Most of anything you will want to ask is posted there for you to review.

DD-DLoS

[Ranch 13]

 I like a wad between the powder and bullet when shooting black powder. Usually use a .030 fiber wad. They help protect the base of the bullet , assisting in better accuracy, and also helps to keep fouling down. Wads stamped out of milk cartons or tablet backs work, some folks use planejain wax paper.

[Noz]

Ranch 13, Everything you said is true but at our distances (SASS) therre is no need for the added accuracy.  I load only for the 44-40 but I fill the case-1/8" and jam a big lube on top of it.  One pass with moosemilk and a bore snake and my rifle is good for the next match.

[Ranch 13]

Noz there's always need for the most accuracy you can tweak out.

[boot strap jack]

hey thanks for the replies.
BSJ

[Fairshake]

The correct bullet and lube with out a wad is the way to go for CAS. Ranch 13 is a very good long range shooter and he can't see loading any other way. Clean up with moose milk if using the real black. If you don't want to cast your own Big Lubes then contact Springfield Slim. He has them ready to ship. The PRS in 250gr or the JP 205 gr are the way to go. Later David

[Ranch 13]

  Well I don't know about the very good part, but I do load everything I shoot for accuracy.
Clean up run a dry patchon a jag down each hole you can find, followed by a wet patch (1/2 water 1/2 simple green) repeat if necessary, when things are clean enough to suit, then a patch soaked in ballistol.
Case clean up 1 inch of simple green in a jug fill jug with deprimed cases and water, shake, put jug under running water and leave until water comes clear. Dry cases, then if you feel like it put in tumbler.
:oWord to the wize, 32 hr cases can hide inside 38-40 cases and not get properly polished, and 45 colt cases will cover the top half of the 40-65 cases...

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Put me in the camp that does not use a wad. At CAS distances it just ain't necessary for any extra accuracy. Sight picture is far more important at these distances than a wad is.

As far as leading is concerned, you will get absolutely no leading with Black Powder. I haven't quite figured out why yet, but for some reason there is just no leading at all with Black Powder. Once I clean them, my BP guns are squeaky clean and there is never the sliightest hint of leading. Much different than Smokeless.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Ranch 13, Everything you said is true but at our distances (SASS) therre is no need for the added accuracy.  I load only for the 44-40 but I fill the case-1/8" and jam a big lube on top of it.  One pass with moosemilk and a bore snake and my rifle is good for the next match.

+1 What Noz said.  I use the same load for my 44-40 and use the same procedure for the 45LC with a 250 PRS bullet.  Same cleaning procedure and my rifles chew 1 ragged hole at 25 yards.  What more is there to achieve?

[boot strap jack]

well looks to be pretty straight foward loading the black. Has anyone used a dillion 550 with a dillion powder measure to load black? Whats the opinion on this?
BSJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

well looks to be pretty straight foward loading the black. Has anyone used a dillion 550 with a dillion powder measure to load black? Whats the opinion on this?
BSJ

Yep!

Works fine.  For a couple years   I   a friend used a Dillon measure that   I   he converted by replacing the clear plastic hopper with a large diameter piece of copper tubing.  It worked fine, but I   he never could find the exact size, so   I   he had to rig it.    I   He ended up taking it off and has been using it stock for the last couple years.


Yes ... I   we KNOW all the horror stories about static vs. BP.  After trying ... and failing ... to light off some loose and also some compressed BP,  I   he went back to playin' fat, dumb, & happy and not worrying about it.

Don't let Dillon know - it'll void the warranty!

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

well looks to be pretty straight foward loading the black. Has anyone used a dillion 550 with a dillion powder measure to load black? Whats the opinion on this?
BSJ

I use a Dillon 550 to load my bp .44-40's.  But instead of using the Dillon powder measure, I hand dip the bp with a Lee 2.2cc dipper. I still use the empty powder measure with the expansion die/plug to bell the case, then at the bullet seating stage I dip the bp and seat the bullet.  The 2.2cc dipper works fer .45 Colt, too. No wad needed.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I started out doing exactly what JD describes, and it worked well - much faster than a single stage press.  Then several years ago I purchased a conversion kit for my Dillon powder measure from Buffalo Arms.  It consisted of an aluminum cylinder with a grounding wire to replace the factory plastic cylinder.  I use that with black powder with no problems. 

You do have to use their magnum powder charge bar in the measure to get the volumes of black that are required.  However, I don't see it listed on their website any more, but you might try contacting them and see if they will make you one.  They have a complete machine shop at their facility and might make them on special order.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Just use a stock Rifle charge bar.  No need to spend extra $$$s.  Works well to 70 grains.  (That I've seen, but maybe a bit more.)

[boot strap jack]

Sounds like all the bases have been covered. Thanks BSJ