More powerful shotgun load ???

[August]

Can someone recommend a simple way to get more oomph from my shotgun without starting over with different wads and shells?

I got in a real mess, yesterday, with a knockdown that was impossible to take.  Most guys were having a hard time with it, but my loads wouldn't take it down with a square hit.  It's really a problem with the match and not my loads, but I want to be better prepared next time.

I use Goex Cowboy.  Load with a Mec Jr. and use a #40 bushing for powder.  Drop 7/8 ounces of shot.  Use STS hulls with Claybuster pink wads.  This load works 99% of the time.  It didn't yesterday.

If I substitute Triple Seven for Holy Black, will I get more oomph ?

Could I duplex a little bit to get more oomph ?

Is there a different wad that will let me use a bit more shot to get more oomph

Thanks for any recommendations, however I hope to avoid solutions with wad columns that have twelve different components and complexities.

Thanks.

[Dick Dastardly]

It's shot on steel that does the work.  When I need more KD power I use more shot.  I want the shot to arrive at the steel in one mass.  Flyers that miss the steel don't help.

So, I use enough FFg Holy Black to get the speed up to around 1200 fps.  Then, I use a shorter wad column under my shot.  I install a mylar wrapper and dump in 1-1/8 oz of shot and sift buffer down into the shot.  Then, I use a roll crimp to hold it all in place till the fire gets well lit under it.

Outside of going up to my 10ga, there's not much more I can do.  I'm assuming that you are using a scattergun with some choke in it.  If so, the above will take down any KDs that are somewhere near calibration.  If not, get a 10ga with 32" full and full tubes and hit them KDs with 2-1/4oz of fineshot out of a 3-1/2" Federal hull.  If that don't take 'em down it'll break 'em and they won't rise again.

DD-DLoS

[Springfield Slim]

I had the same problem with some knockdowns until I REDUCED the amount of powder and UPPED the amount of shot. With too much powder you can blow a hole in the midle of your pattern and all the shot goes around the outside and nothing hits in the middle. You can probably even use the same wad you are using now.

[Noz]

I agree with Slim. I have found that my pattern improves greatly by loading a square load but backing off 15-20% on the powder.
My current favorites have about 45 grs of FFg behind an ounce. 7/8s will work if you hit a good KD square.  If the KD is faulty then take your miss and go on because dynamite may not take it down.  I watched a shooter at a state match decide that the KD would fall and he shot 10 shots without knocking it down. Quit because he ran out of shells.

[hellgate]

Regardless of what loads are suggested to you, you MUST pattern your loads to know what your gun is doing with them because your mileage WILL vary.

About 10 years ago I shot in one of my favorite two day annual shoots and only had 4 misses two of which were shotgun fallers that failed to go down. At a second annual I could not bring any of the fallers down on the first stage with repeated hits and an 80 gr BP  1 1/8oz load. Fortunately, we were the first posse and I was one of the first to shoot it and the RO reset the fallers to a lighter setting but that was intimidating to me to not blow them over. Lots of smoke and noise but no "umph".  This was before much standardization of target size & distance; they were heavy and out there a ways.  So I went on a quest to improve the patterns in my cut down (cyl/cyl) Stevens 311. BlackJack Traven on the old CAS-L (earliest CAS Email bulletin board I know of) suggested STEEL SHOT CUPS after relating a similar experience. I tried them during extensive patterning tests and have not had problems with knockdowns since. Ballistics Products is my source for the wads.

First of all, the WAA12R (AA Red Wad or Claybusters generic equivalent CB 1138-12) is a very versitile wad for CHOKED guns. You can adapt any AA wad and several other types of plastic one piece wads to 2 or 3 heights by merely slicing out some or all of the "legs":
-Cut them out entirely (shortest wad column i.e. over powder seal & shot cup)
-Cutting the "legs" across the middle and rotating the wad 90 degrees and pressing the parts together for a medium high wad
-leave it intact for the tallest wad column.
There you go: a "3 sizes fits all" AA wad for light or heavy loads in the same or different hulls.

In order to get tighter patterns from my 311 and my TTN, I use 3 different Ballistic Products wads:
LBC-50 trimmed with tin snips to 30mm and slit twice full length. (I use a utility knife/box cutter)
CSD 118 also trimmed & slit twice
BP12 TUFF steel shot cup slit twice over any kind of salvaged over powder plastic gas seal wad

I tried not slitting the wads but they tumbled and threw elongated irregular patterns with about 1/3 of the shot load traveling backwards still inside the cup. I used 4 slits half length without improvement in the patterns. I used 75-80 grs FFg and 1 1/8oz shot as my load. My patterning board was an IPSC target or a large cardboard box with a sheet of freezer paper stapled to it at about 20 yards. Mark an aiming point on the paper. You can use 10 or 15 yards distance too. I think a full choke pattern is 10 inches in diameter at 10 yards but check a shotgun reloading manual for the various widths of patterns expected at various yardages for the equivalent choke. I cannot overestimate the importance of this simple patterning. You may find your gun shoots high, low, or God knows where til you see where the center of that pattern hits compared to where your aimed. I found that I was having some misses on stationary targets with an IGA Coachgun because the barrels were "walleyed" (left barrel hit low & left, right barrel hit high & right).

Results: all 3 above wads threw nice, even MODIFIED CHOKE patterns from my cylinder bores.

I now have essentially two loads. A light "gamer" load equivalent to a 20 ga of 55grs BP (or ANY sub other than 777) with 7/8oz of #8 or #9 shot using any wad column that allows a decent crimp. I usually try to use a plastic gas seal (PGS) OP wad and after that, anything goes: fiber, plastic, cards etc. The light load is for those ever increasing stationary  targets and swingers, or fallers so close that any reasonable hit will take them down. I load the light loads in green hulls. My heavier, steel shot cup load is put into red hulls. I can essentially change chokes by changing ammo.

Now, as DGB#29 (that's Dirty Gamey Bastard #29) I also will load custom loads for specific conditions. A big load of wide pattern (no shot cup at all but a PGS+Filler) with 80grs powder and 1 1/8os shot comes in handy. I'll use #9s for the pop up soda cans and briquets and #6s for the times when I think I can get more than one faller per shot when they're placed closer together. I've occasionally gotten 3 down with one shot. This usually happens with the full intent of the stage writer to let shooters "game it" by leaning over or doing whatever to see if they can get some doubles. It's a major fun factor.
So, you've got a hard little knockdown that throws up a can of pop: Left barrel gets a red round and the right gets the wide #9s. Just as if I had chokes, I shoot the tight load first to drop the faller and the open bore for the flyer. It's just like hunting, you have different loads for different critters close or far.

Keep in mind that BP doesn't throw shot as fast as smokeless powder. The short coach guns throw out a lot of unburned powder compared to a 30" gun. The slower to burn BP likes a long barrel to burn it all for maximum velocity. With smokeless, the powder is all burned in the first 18-20" of barrel. So, you are shooting softer loads to begin with. Just to get the equivalent of a standard 3 dram 1 1/8oz trap load you need to go to 82 grs of black. A lot of folks are shooting 55-60grs BP in a 12 ga. That's slow. In order to make up for the velocity lack you need a tight pattern. That's why I like the steel shot cups to put choke where it's needed to blow down the big steel.

[Roosterman]

More shot or more choke, either one will work.

[Delmonico]

Regardless of what loads are suggested to you, you MUST pattern your loads to know what your gun is doing with them because your mileage WILL vary.

Funny how so many folks will ignore patterning, then wonder why their shotgun don't work as they want.  patterening a shotgun with every load to be used in it is just as important as sighting in a rifle or a handgun.

[Montana Slim]

Proabably need more shot, I'm running about 1 1/8 oz  with a fibre-wad setup.

As Dell suggests, patterning the gun is essential with any load your planning to use.
Save some cardboard and test those loads.

Regards,
Slim

[Jefro]

What the others have said, might be blowing a hole in your pattern. Take some cardboard to the range and pattern your shotgun, and loads. Here's a few of my favorites, Good Luck.

Win Red wad-59gr ffg...1 1/8oz shot Mec #41
BPI wad #072SSW-55gr ffg..1 1/8oz Mec #40(great load)
Rem SP12 wad-48gr ffg..1 1/8oz Mec #38(my favorite)
BPI Helix #18 wad-50gr ffg...1oz Mec #39
Win Pink wad-46gr ffg Mec #37(another favorite)
Loads may need to be adjusted a few grains dpending on brand of powder, these are with Schuetzen.

Jefro

[Capt. Augustus]

Since my shoulder replacement, which was supposed to end my shotgunning, a pard introduced me to a smokeless 12  gauge load without any recoil.  This got me thinking and I started experimenting and found the the following BP load. I use 30 grains 3F and 1oz. shot using a grey shotcup.  This load has taken everything down at the two clubs I shoot and, and I've seen them not fall to WALMART SPECIALS.

[Tequila Jim]

I use 777 with the 40 bushing but I am dropping 1 1/8 oz. of shotwith a red wad in the AA hulls.
Works for me. Regards, TJ

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Lots of advice here.  I'll try to boil it down;

It is LEAD on the target that gets results.

LESS powder means tighter patterns.  (See Capt Augustus' post.  His load his load is a great example of the principle.)

Conversely, more powder opens patterns, and in extreme cases might blow them into a donut.

MORE shot in relation to powder might tighten patterns, and at least there is more lead flying toward the target.

Shotcups either plastic or paper rolled like a coin roll tighten patterns.

Tighter chokes usually do what they are supposed to do. (That is why sawdoff's are a bad idea. NO CHOKE LEFT!  Factory jobs are likely OK.)