Stamps and carving tools

Gun Butcher · December 15, 2009, 08:28:38 AM

I don't think this topic has been covered but if it has then just direct me to it.
What stamps or carving tools, and I am talking "craftools", would you recommend for advancing beyond the basic set that tandy sells. Which ones would give the learning novice the most options as far as versatility.
I realize that this whole question is subjective but I just wondered what youall thought. Keep in mind that I am thinking about someone with a limited budget and a desire to go to the next level with his or her leatherwork.
Give me your opinions and thoughts. And not just the master leatherworkers, I also want to hear from the new guys. No matter what stage you are at in your leatherworking, your experience with the different tools will be helpful to many new people who are not sure where there money would be best spent.
What will give them the most bang for their buck.

Dalton Masterson · December 15, 2009, 10:29:30 AM

That is a very subjective question. It depends on what kind of carving you do, etc.
BUT, my best piece of advice for you, is only buy the ones that you need for your next project. I have a bunch of stamps that I do not use at all, and quite a few of them have NEVER been used on a project. Basically they are just wasted money at this point.
I have enough stamps now that it is getting hard to get new ones at Tandy. I probably only use a quarter of the stamps regularly on projects.
If it was up to me, I would buy stamps for borders. Build good and different borders with new stamps, and refine your carving with the basic 7+ a few you need now and then.

DM

Gun Butcher · December 15, 2009, 11:10:43 AM

Thank you Dalton, that is exactly what I was looking for.
I have tools for other hobbies that probably havn't been used in the last ten years. Good tools, but so highly specialized that they never get used or I forget that I have them and use a simpler more versatile tool to get the same effect.
Do you have any favorites that to you are more versatile that others?

Dalton Masterson · December 15, 2009, 11:40:27 AM

The favorites I have are ones that I have adjusted with a file to make them a little more mine, and a little different than anyone elses. It doesnt take much with a small round file to really change a stamp to suit you.
I am at work right now, and dont have them in front of me, but basically I like good vintage looking borders. A nice geometric row of X's or a meander are tough to beat.

DM

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · December 15, 2009, 11:53:58 AM

Howdy GB

I feel the same as Dalton, I was lucky in that when I started leather craft, a friend of mind that no longer could do leather work , gave me his tools, which was a big help to me, but after that, I bought patterns for holsters from Will Ghormely, and he always noted the tools needed, so I would buy those tools that I didn't already have, guess you could say I bought them as needed, now I have most the craft tools from Tandy, and a couple Berry King stamps, But Dalton is right , you really just end up using about 25% of them, border stamps and your meander stamps and a starter carving kit would be a good way to start out if I was to have to start from the beginning, anything else can be acquired as you go along. Also a marble or granite slab, a poundo board and good mallet, a good utility knife is a must.

Regards

tEN wOLVES

Slowhand Bob · December 15, 2009, 12:04:59 PM

+2 on the specialty border stamps and some are also partial to the basket weaves and Geometrics for covering large areas fast. I have a coupls of friends who would buy anything if you just put barbwire on thr edge but I like a simple rope edges better myself, and thats the trick, dawnt buy it just to have it. Small numbers of the right stamps will build a library of pattern variations.

Gun Butcher · December 15, 2009, 12:08:22 PM

Thanks Ten Wolves and Slowhand, I guess my purpose with this thread is to take some of the mystery out of working leather. We are always telling folks that it's easy and anyone can do it but, I thought getting into a few peoples heads about the tools they actually use most of the time would give a better example of what we are saying.
Myself, like Dalton,Marshal Will, you, and others will make a tool or modify one to get the effect we want. But the major idea that I had was how few tools you actually need to get started and with just a few more after that you can progress as far as you would like.
Sure we would all like to have a full set of Barry King tools but the thing I want to get across to anyone that is just starting is what you can do with just a few tools.

Getiin' down off my box now

Skeeter Lewis · December 15, 2009, 12:13:56 PM

Have a look at 'Tandy Tool Numbers' on page 13. Skeet

JD Alan · December 15, 2009, 12:36:24 PM

I started writing this before anyone else responded, and just got back to it. I'm glad to see you've received some great responses

Well, I qualify as a "new guy" for sure. I bought my first Craftool in June of 2008. In October I spoke to Dalton Masterson about this forum while I was on the SASS site, and I've been hanging around here ever since, getting quality helpful advice from many great guys.

In my opinion, if you want to carve the first thing you need is a good swivel knife, something beyond the basic Tandy model. The difference between a quality knife and cheap one is amazing. I bought a Henley from E-Bay, and I really like it, but there are lots of quality knives out there. I have several friends who use the Stohlman knife and really like it.

The second thing I would recommend is buy a good beveller, two if you can afford it. I've bought two of Barry King's, one a normal size, and the second smaller for tight spots. They are so superior to the Craftools I don't touch them any more. You would be money ahead to buy one or two quality bevellers than a drawer full of Tandy's tools.

With money being an issue (it is for me) I think most of the border type tools from Craftool are fine. I like D637 D607 O56 O57 K153L K153R. Backgrounders are tricky; I would suggest you ask WC about background tools. He is an absolute master in all aspects of this craft, and owns a store.

At the very least a good quality swivel knife and a quality beveller are must haves.

I truly wish I had not spent so much money on Craftools, because most of them don't get used. Just my experience. Good luck. JD

cowboywc · December 16, 2009, 04:30:48 AM

Howdy
This is a very good thread and one that has unlimited answers.
Let me start with the "Basic 7". Yes you need them but WHAT 7? Different companies have had different Basic 7 sets.
My beginning students get checkered bevelers & pear shaders. Why?, because I teach a lot of antique staining of projects and smooth face tools most of the time don't give as good a burnish and will not hold the stain when wiped off. The first additions I have them get are a stop & mulesfoot. Then we start with a few different sizes to fit the different carving patterns they do.
Geometric stamps will depend on how difficult each person finds them to be. I've had students that could not run a basketweave to save their life but did great with a box stamp.
I have 1,000's of stamps, (those that have been to my shop know) do I use them all the time? No, but when I need one for a job I have it. Sometimes I get in a rut and forget to get out some of the stamps I have not used in a long time.
Buy what you need when you can and buy what you want when you can afford it.
WC
PS
Remember I'm a tool collecting nut.

panhead pete · December 16, 2009, 06:10:42 AM

One of the best "tools" I purchased was "Sheridan Style Carving", a very good book on tooling and the use of beverlers and background stamps. It is a step by step guide which I think you will find very useful.

Happy Tooliing,

Panhead Pete

Gun Butcher · December 16, 2009, 06:40:09 AM

+1 on the tool nut

Thanks for your imput JD and WC. They were both well thought out posts like the earlier ones. Like all the comments so far I agree that a few basic tools will get you along way. After that it kind of takes on a life of its own as far as the direction your leathercrafting goes. Their are so many choices and eventually I think we try all of them to some degree until we settle on the style we enjoy the most.
Aquiring the higher end tools is ,I am sure , the smarter thing to do with your money. But, I think we would all agree that many ,many beautiful projects have been made with what amounts to a starter set of tools. As WC pointed out though there are many different starter sets. What they all have in common are different sizes or slightly different styles of the same basic tools.

JD, You are a very lucky man when it comes to leatherwork. Your first exposure was to high end quality products and you had the benefit of very good teachers.Your tool buying ideas reflect that and are very,very sound. When alot of us started there was no internet and for some of us there were no stores close by. My first exposure was a shop teacher and the usual key holder and maybe a wallet type project. That is where I got my first Tandy catalog. For many years I thought thats all their was. Their were no videos only the books and I wore out a copy of "The Art of Leathercrafting" drooling over every picture and wishing for more tools.
Money at our house was always tight so the tools didn't come and my leatherworking took that direction. What I mean is very usable items with very little decoration. So when the inernet came along it was like Christmas and a trip to a museum all rolled into one. Suddenly I was overwhelmed by some of the most beautiful leatherwork I had ever seen.
Tools were suddenly a big deal again. I wanted them all. But, thankfully somewhere along the line I learned a few things and I started with that basic set again. Along the way I have added a few, not many, when someone wanted something that I didn't have. I had never made my own tools until I found this forum. Since then I have made 6 or 7 special tools of my own design usually for a special job. I am now at the point of adding a few more and that is what started this thread.
I think,since I like the simple understated items the best, that I will get more mileage out of the geometric and border tools. And you guys have pretty much agreed with that. Not being in the business, my tool buying is not fueled by what a customer wants so I guess I have to find my own style and progress form there.
Thanks, Gun Butcher
PS
Thanks Pete, Although I love looking at Sheridan its a little to busy for my tastes. But that is a great book for someone who is interested in that style of carving

Dalton Masterson · December 16, 2009, 07:48:17 AM

I second the motion on the Sheridan book. Even if you are not carving Sheridan style, it is still useful in that it really shows in detail what you need to do with the tools.
DM

JD Alan · December 16, 2009, 11:08:51 AM

Gun Butcher, I understand your thoughts towards Sheridan carving, but while attending Chan Geer's Sheridan carving class, I discovered it doesn't all have to be so "overdone" as some of it looks to me. I think I may view some of it as overdone simply because it seems so far out of reach for my ability. Some of the designs Chan showed us are fairly simple; IMO it's just a matter of personal taste with the flowers, vines and leaves.

Having read the other posts, you've received some great info. For a new guy, I think a better swivel knife cannot be overemphasized. For guys like WC and Chuck B, I think they could carve with a nail from Home Depot and it would look great. But for the rest of us, a quality knife with a quality blade properly sharpened is a big improvement and confidence builder.

I attended a class at Tandy recently, and had a few new people around me, carving with the low cost Tandy knife. One of them spotted my knife and asked about it, so I let them try it. Now, all of them want a Henley knife! I suggested they try the Stohlman Knife, and maybe to watch for it on sale if need be.

Thanks for starting an excellent thread. JD

cowboywc · December 16, 2009, 01:16:22 PM

Howdy JD
A good swivel knife is a good investment, but some just can't afford one. The next best thing is a good swivel knife blade. A Henley or a Bob Beard or even a Stohlman blade in the standard knife will improve anyones work.
WC

Gun Butcher · December 16, 2009, 06:44:00 PM

WC, now that is something I had not thought of and one of the reasons I started this thread. A blade for the knives I have is definitely doable. Thanks Much.

JD and Dalton, you guys are right about information. Something learned is never wasted. Even if it isn't your style the simple fact of being exposed to it will improve the style you have. And don't get me wrong I am sure that I will eventually end up with some of the King or Hackbarth quality of tools, its just that right now I wanted to slow myself down and not wind up with a bunch of things I don't need.
Also it was my hope that you guys would chime in,as you did so eloquently, and maybe it would help someone just starting out to see that he doesn't need a lot of high priced stuff to enjoy the greatest hobby their is outside of dressing up and playing Cowboy.

Each of us has a different skill level and each of us has something to offer to that new guy who is wondering whether he can ever learn this crazy craft or not.

Thank you all very, very much for putting in your 2 cents worth.
Gun Butcher

Dalton Masterson · December 16, 2009, 07:06:40 PM

Contact Sheridan Leather Outfitters for a King blade. I picked mine up on my summer trip to Wyoming, and boy they are nice. They were relatively inexpensive as well, and work fine in my knives.
Just having a nice blade, made a heck of a difference in my carving. The ball bearing knives just added to that.
DM

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · December 16, 2009, 07:23:27 PM

Howdy Gun Butcher

I'll tell you what I did and still do, when I want to create a border, on my work, I use my Tandy catalog, in my catalog I have circled all the stamps that I have now, so if there is one I need, I check there first to see if I already have it, it's a great way of keeping an inventory of your tools and stamps, but what I really like to do is just look at these impressions, and try to create different styles of borders, or even basket weaves, by having a visual aid like the catalog, and having it right in front of you, I find it really helps in putting together a border style or something that is a little different, after looking, and making up my mind as to what I want to do/ or think I want to do, I will go to my shop and pull the stamps I have decided to use, and try it out on scrap, having more than just a few stamps makes new designs much easier when you already have them, but as I said before, you will find that you will have your favorites, there for I still say if money is a factor, buy your stamps when they are on sale, if you buy Tandy stamps you can get them for $3.99 ea. when on sale, I was lucky in that I had a great mentor in Cowboy WC, I listened to what he had to say, and that was a big help in saving me a lot of money in the long run, just as he stated for the swivel knife, if you can't afford the expensive one, you could probably afford the blade, and like JD said and I'll vouch for this too a good swivel knife really makes a BIG DIFFERENCE in the way you will be able to use it, I have big hands, and WC told me to get the larger barrel and a laid over saddle, with adjustable stem, I have a bum hand, and it's my strong hand, or used to be, this new knife has made a world of difference in my control of the knife, it's a Henley, the knife is a big plus , but the blade is where the big difference is, but if you're not going to do any carving, you could use a utility knife, Will I guess that's all I think I know, so I'll shut up now

tEN wOLVES

Gun Butcher · December 16, 2009, 08:02:46 PM

Thanks for your input Ten Wolves. That is exactly how I learned, by looking at pictures. And I still use the tandy catalog for figuring out different combinations of stamps or even for finding a way to use a tool that I have to get close to an effect in carving a pattern. But My biggest resource and inspiration has become this forum.
There are so many different styles and ideas being shown here along with all the tips and help that anyone could ask for that it keeps me going all the time.
Just today in "show your stuff "I suddenly realized that I really like Chuck Burrows style. It took a while because I didn't really understand the "aged" look. Now I have learned to really look at his things and see all of the little details and the thought and inventiveness that goes into one of his pieces. They are truly amazing.
Your work, Kid Terico's,Ace's,heck I could go on all night, has taught me things I never dreamed of about this craft. Everyone who has ever shown anything on the site has influenced me to some degree. Now all that I need to do is keep learning and practice, practice, etc...
Oh, and get a new knife blade
Gun Butcher

JD Alan · December 16, 2009, 09:05:21 PM

It sure is good to have guys like WC and Dalton on the Forum. Dalton was a HUGE help to me when I came over from the "Dark Side" I should have thought to say a good blade will fit in most swivel knives. Barry King makes a blade to fit in Tandy's knives; They good blades reasonably priced, especially compared to some "Pro blades".

When I was a WC's shop, I marveled at the collection of swivel knives he had. But I can understand that, considering the pro he is, and the business he's in.

Look in the tool box of a guy who wrenches for a living and you're not likely to see a lot of Craftsman tools, but Snap-on or Mac. Nothing wrong with Craftsman tools; I've got quite a few and wish I had more. I don't have but a few Snap-on tools, found few and far between at garage sales.

This has been a really cool thread, great to read.