Paper-Patch for 44-77 - Worth the effort?

Bead Swinger · December 08, 2009, 07:10:10 PM

I just picked up a sporterized Peabody in 44-77, and am looking forward to getting a mold for the gun. I've never tried it, but was wondering if paper patch would be worth trying - I've been casting and realoading for a number of years, but the biggest thing I have is a 45-70 (also a Peabody)

Ideas and experience welcome.

Ranch 13 · December 08, 2009, 09:24:39 PM

Paper patch might be the best way to end up with a decent fitting bullet.
Problem is paper patch moulds ain't cheap.
Might call up Bernie at Old West Moulds in Fruita Co, and see if he has or will throw one out for you. I have one of his adjustable paper patch moulds,.435 dia, that works in the 44's with thin paper and the 45's with thicker paper.

Probably best to do a chamber and throat cast , and slug the bore to figure just what you've got to work with.

Blackpowder Burn · December 09, 2009, 10:24:17 PM

Buffalo Arms also makes custom bullet molds, including those for paper patch bullets. The price is listed as $125.

Yellowhouse Sam · January 08, 2010, 08:43:45 AM

There is plently of information on the Shiloh Rifle forum and others on paper patching and this site will give a start: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/PPB.htm Also, Venturino has a section on this in his book Shooting Buffalo Rifles

Do all the math before you order a mold!!! Make sure you have the correct brass (headspace) for your rifle. Buffalo arms may have some bullets you can try prior to ordering a mold. Bullet diameter, case wall thickness, and chamber dimensions will dictate what paper thickness (good paper is getting hard to find). But this can be overcome by ordering the correct diameter mold.

A chamber cast and bore measurements (slugging) is recommended to determine BORE and not Groove diameter although the latter is nice to know. There are so many variables from one 44-77 to another that it can be a money pit if you don't do some homework.

Worth the effort? Heck yes! Once you get your load worked out you'll realize how easy and convenient it is. Probably over 90% of the buffalo were shot with PPB and the 44-77 got a large share of them. Once you see that confetti fill the air you'll be hooked.
Likely, I'll never shoot another greaser through my 44-77. And the loads look sexy too!

Ranch 13 · January 08, 2010, 09:04:08 AM

Sam did you ever get those tanks buster and tank buster lite bullets I sent you to work, or did you meltem down for something more useful?
I've got a KAL pp mold here on loan, have a few rounds loaded up for testiing, but with all this global warming about , its not been exactly good to testing new pp bullets at meaningful distance.

Yellowhouse Sam · January 08, 2010, 12:18:39 PM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on January 08, 2010, 09:04:08 AM
Sam did you ever get those tanks buster and tank buster lite bullets I sent you to work, or did you meltem down for something more useful?
I've got a KAL pp mold here on loan, have a few rounds loaded up for testiing, but with all this global warming about , its not been exactly good to testing new pp bullets at meaningful distance.

Well, I'll be darned.....small world!!!!! They were just too long a bullet for the twist as they keyholed like crazy. Boy, when one did hit square it literrally shook the tree was usin as a backstop. I wasn't thrilled either about the recoil that 525 grainer generated & my Roller isn't that heavy. Prompted me to get a lead sled in a hurry and chuck the 2f load in favor of 1f.

I just ran back across my notes. There were two bullets: 1) a 475 gr at .432 that I wrapped up with Seton 13 lb paper and 2) a .434-5 diam 525 gr TANKBUSTER wrapped with BACO. The lighter bullets worked well. Based on experience with them it helped me determine what diamter bullet I could use.

I wound up buying an adjustable KAL mold .435 on the base and wrap to .443. It likely the same design you have...tapered Sharps.. but like you said with all the global warming its been to dang cold here to cast any..

Ranch 13 · January 08, 2010, 02:24:32 PM

I was hurling some of those tankbuster out of the 43 egyptian a while back, couldn't hit nothin, but it was a good way to get rid of some APP I had no use for.

Recoil in those lite rollers is something to be appreciated.

This Kal mold I'm using at the moment Rick Mulhern sent to me. It won't cast any heavier than about 500 grs, has sort of a creedmoreish shaped nose, but has a pretty big meplat. I'm thinking it might be a decent hunting bullet. It drops at .440 from 20-1.
Stay warm.

Yellowhouse Sam · January 08, 2010, 04:40:13 PM

If I remember correctly, the meplat on this one is .15.....but don't hold me to that

It takes at least 30-1 and preferably 40-1 to get them bumped up and it has to do a lot of bumping up. See you over at Shiloh .....or here. I think its a bit more "civil" here!

Ranch 13 · January 08, 2010, 05:42:48 PM

Sheez must be left overs from the blue moon or a long winter.....

The bpcr board at handloads.com is back open for business also.

Yellowhouse Sam · January 08, 2010, 06:04:03 PM

I'll try that one. If I ever get unwound will send you some bullets from the KAL mold.

Visited and didn't see anything about BPCR.

Ranch 13 · January 08, 2010, 06:41:25 PM

NO sweat on the bullets I've got so dang many things I need to try it's almost overwhelming. $:-\$

try this http://forums.handloads.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=19

Yellowhouse Sam · January 08, 2010, 09:30:04 PM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on January 08, 2010, 06:41:25 PM
NO sweat on the bullets I've got so dang many things I need to try it's almost overwhelming. $:-\$

try this http://forums.handloads.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=19

I should have a sign in my shop that says "Tomb of Unfinished Projects".

Ranch 13 · January 08, 2010, 10:20:23 PM

My rountoit is so big I can't take it to town any more. Its overheight and over width.

Bead Swinger · February 11, 2010, 12:21:06 PM

Well I bought a bunch of .441 PP bullets from Buffalo Arms - 450 Gr. and 400 gr. I've got about 35 cartridges loaded with pyrodex, so we'll see how they come out. 'might be a while before I get them out to the range. They sure look great.

Yellowhouse Sam · February 12, 2010, 05:51:51 PM

Quote from: Bead Swinger on February 11, 2010, 12:21:06 PM
Well I bought a bunch of .441 PP bullets from Buffalo Arms - 450 Gr. and 400 gr. I've got about 35 cartridges loaded with pyrodex, so we'll see how they come out. 'might be a while before I get them out to the range. They sure look great.

Just curious! Wrapped to .441 or bare bullet?. Sounds awfully large in diameter for a 44-77. What rifle do you have and what is bore diameter?

Bead Swinger · February 23, 2010, 08:53:59 PM

Well, I don't know for sure. The fellow I bought the rifle from gave me a sizing die and a pile of .446 bullets, so I was wrapping these to come out at .446 or .447.

It's a Peabody carbine converted to .44-77 Remington.

Yellowhouse Sam · February 24, 2010, 08:55:29 AM

Might want to slug it and find out. A chamber cast or measurements from a fireformed case probably wouldn't hurt either then does some math on what size bullet & paper thickness you need.

I ask cause bore diam on my original roller is .445 and new Shilohs are .438. Have no idea what the Peabody might be. I wouldn't load up a whole bunch until you figure out what the dimensions are and whether or not they'll chamber.

Bead Swinger · February 27, 2010, 03:41:59 PM

They chamber just fine - but that doesn't mean I'm going to be smearing lead when they go downrange.

rustyrelx · May 29, 2010, 10:24:19 AM

Remember that pyrodex is a "smokeless" powder and doesn't "bump" up the bullet like black powder does. So don't be too disappointed if groups are not as expected. With pyrodex full diameter bullets are needed, as in groove diameter..Be sure to try 1F black powder before giving up on pp bullets. Don

Yellowhouse Sam · May 31, 2010, 10:49:13 PM

Quote from: Bead Swinger on February 27, 2010, 03:41:59 PM
They chamber just fine - but that doesn't mean I'm going to be smearing lead when they go downrange.

No, not if they are wrapped properly. Please do a little reading on the subject. Its important you know what your bore and groove, espescially bore, dimension are. Check out this and then do some some searching on bprcr.net,etc.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/PPB.htm