Sewing Machine Needle and Thread Size Charts

[outrider]

For those of you that are interested:

Go to the Raphaelsewing.com site and download their Needle and Thread Size Chart.  This chart references all needle sizes from Singer Size 8 (metric size 60) all the way to Singer Size 32 (metric size 380)  The chart also list the threads that are compatable to the respective needle sizes.

For example...singer size 21 (metric 130) is used with thread sizes 69 and 90, whereas the singer size 32 (metric 380) utilizes size 415 thread.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I was searching for a table/cabinet for my own machine, and found this table that shows dates of manufacture to serial numbers .... thought someone might like it ...

http://www.singersewingmachine.com/manufacture2.htm

Best Holliday wishes  ....

BTW, if someone has a worn out machine with a good treadle cabinet, I would love to talk to you ... my email is on my profile ....

P.S. It says mine is a 1910 model

[Gun Butcher]

Thanks Outrider, I can sure use that.

[outrider]

WW,  Good information there.  You can also go to the Singer Web Site and get the production dates for their machines.  Those oldies are certainly goodies

[JD Alan]

Speaking of thread, I picked up some machine thread from Tandy, because I didn't know where else to find any. What I have works ok, but I would like to find some black thread of the same size-weight. I called the maker, American & Efird, and they are going to send me some samples that they think may be what I'm looking for.

I've included a picture of the thread label, because I have no idea how to make sense of this thing, to know what the size of the thread it. The machine repairman that came out to go over the machine brought a package of needles he said fit this machine, and were made for sewing leather. The brand name is Groz-Beckert  Right below the name is 10 Nm 180/24. Then it has 135 x 17 DP x 17.

The machine sews fine with this combo of needle and thread, but I would like some black thread as well. Tandy only sells white. I am clueless as to what these numbers mean. If anyone could enlighten me on the thread or needles I would appreciate hearing about it.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

JD,

You probably saw this when it came up on a 'thread' (no pun intended), and I am sure it is not your total answer.

But it might be part of the picture anyway:

http://raphaelsewing.com/blog/?p=11

I put the page from Raphael Sewing on my 'favorites list' so that I can return to it anytime.

As far as color, I would think that someone with leather experience on this site might be able to tell you how to make a dye that you can just soak the white thread in ... the color white is just the absence of colors in the color chart, so I am thinking your present white thread might be like a blank canvas ...

Another person to contact might be Will Ghormley ... when he made those black 'Flames of Hell' holsters for the character of Charley Prince in "3:10 to Yuma", he had to use black thread ... and he is very accessible and friendly to other leatherworkers .... His email and ph# ar on his website ...

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/

[JD Alan]

Hey there WWE, I appreciate the info. I am pretty sure Will G does not use a machine on any of his leatherwork, and black thread that is for hand sewing is easy to get a hold of. I tried dying this polyester thread with normal Fiebings dye and it didn't do much. There is a local place that handles thread for auto and furniture upholstery, but it is too light to look good. Hopefully American & Efird will have the same size thread in black. The problem with heavier thread is the path it has to travel to get from the spool to the needle. The pullys? will only allow a certain size thread to go through them.

Thanks for them Link; I will check it out. JD     

[outrider]

WW,

I was fortunate enough to spend the day with Will Ghormley last July when we were in Iowa. We had a good visit with Will and his two boys in his shop then went out to a local BBQ place for lunch...Our door is open to him anytime he is in this area.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

The movie '3:10 to Yuma' convinced me about using Schofields for SASS.

When I went on the movie website, there was a link to his site (Since he did most if not all of the leatherwork for the movie).

My holsters are a the result of a lot of emails and phone calls between Mr. Ghormley and I. What a nice man! He not only educated me about SASS and leather, but he evolved two holsters to meet my needs.

What I wanted was a 'plain jane' (read less expensive) versions of the 'Flames from Hell" Holster.

Will kindly said he would make whatever I wanted, but suggested two changes. One was to make the holsters so they could be double butt forward (as in the movie) or double strongside. Since I did not know that SASS had outlawed all double butt-forward rigs, this saved me buying two holsters that would have been unusable in SASS.

The second of his suggestions was to reduce the cant to 20 degrees, so that they would be nowhere near the dreaded 30 degree cant no-no line that SASS has drawn in the sand regarding cants.

So, although my profile pic has me wearing them but forward, the holsters sit double strong side for SASS .... and the cant has the barrels facing slightly forward when in the holster, and come out directly towards the target when drawn.

I guess what I am getting at JD is that he just doesn't make holsters; he likes and respects anyone trying to do the same and would be more than willing to help if you need black thread. No, I don't believe he uses a machine at all, but I am sure he knows where to find the thread or who to talk to about it. 

Best Wishes

[outrider]

Weaver Leather has most all of the size threads you will need and in most colors...when I made my set of "Flames from Hell" holsters I got the red 277 and 207 size thread from Weaver.  Also, you can get several basic colors of polyester thread from Ron at Ferdco...most all my thread comes from Ferdco.   Weaver Leather.com.....ferdco.com

WW your right.... to the best of my knowledge Will does not use a machine to sew....and you are also correct...like many others on this thread Will is a basic down to earth..gentleman...I do believe we are all very lucky to have such good craftsman in this forum who are all gentlemen and not afraid to share with others....this is one good group

[JD Alan]

Outrider, can you tell from the spool bottom what size thread I am dealing with? With all those numbers I have no idea what to tell someone about the thread I am using. I am happy to hear about Ferdco and Weaver; I should have thought about that mysef

WWE, I have had some back & forth emails with Mr. Ghormley myself; some about leather, and some about the Bible and preaching. I have the highest respect for Will as a man, a craftsman, and a strong believer in the power and integrity of the Bible. He is a great family man, and like most of us on the Forum, I would really enjoy spending some time with him. If he ever got out to my neck of the woods, I would ask him to speak at our church.

Thanks for the thread info guys, I appreciate it, JD     

[outrider]

JD,

The spool you have in the photo is size 207 polyester thread.  I use 277 as a top thread and 207 as a bobbin thread,  however your machine will not take anything higher than the 207...sooooooooooooo  use the 207 as the top thread and 138 as a bobbin thread.  Ferdco will have both sizes but are limited to four colors...brown, black, white, and a straw color.  Some prefer nylon thread...others swear by polyester thread...nylon (unless pre-stretched) will stretch and sometimes shows small amounts of fraying.  I use polyester.  Most of the saddle shops and holster suppliers use the larger size threads

The machine that you have...the Singer 211 is a medium weight industrial machine and was not designed as a heavy weight leather stitcher, although with the proper thread and needles makes a great "chaps" machine.  The Ferdco site has a section that lists various sewing machines and what they are used for...they list light weight, medium weight, and the heavy weight stitchers by manufacturer and machine class number.  

Thread sizes.....upholstry thread (including automotive seats) is usually size 69...you then go up from there  69, 92, 138, 207, 277, 346, and 415.  Ferdco can probably set you up with the proper needle sizes that you need...call and ask for Ron...by the way Ron, is personal friends with John Bianchi, and has referred me to Mr. Bianchi several times...although I have never called him.

The needle size for the 207 is either a 180mm (singer #24) or a 190mm (singer #24.5) and you should use one designed for leather...it's like a chisel point or a diamond shaped point.  Go to the Schmetz Needle web site and you can see what types (and there are many) you can get for leather work.  

[outrider]

WW,

Here are some photos of the "Flames from Hell" holsters that I made for myself.  These holsters are cut to fit my Ruger New Model Vaqueros.  The red colored thread came from Weaver

[Gun Butcher]

  Very, very nice Outrider. That rig has a very clean, professional look.
You are giving me quite a lesson on machines. I have been doing a lot of things the wrong way with my 29-4. All the web sites,you have mentioned, and your helpful suggestions have gotten me on the right track at least for awhile. I am beginning to think this machine might be more than just an ol' boat anchor thanks to you.

[outrider]

GB,

The Model 29 is what they call a "patch machine".  It's intended to go inside boots and long arms etc.  hence the long "skinny" open arm on the machine.  It has the swivel presser foot so that you make a turn in the sewing without turning the material.  Ferdco, Artisan, and even Adler (german for eagle) still make the 29 style machines...so they do have their uses.  I would'nt mind having one but it is a model that I don't need right away.  If you go into the Ferdco web site and jot down all the different models of the medium and heavy weight machines...you may run across one in an auction or maybe even a yard sale...but at least you have the model numbers to go by.

Like I have mentioned in other threads...we all help each other in this forum...and in a way..almost like a "Band of Brothers" 

I am by far no expert on sewing machines but I do alot of reading on the subject..there is alot of information out there... if you have a certain model or class machine just do a search on it...the Singer site usually has free downloads on machine manuals for their older machines

[JD Alan]

Outrider, that is a great looking holster rig. I appreciate you pros sharing your work with us. I also appreciate the info you gave me concerning the thread and needles. I am using 180 needles made for leather sewing. I have some bobbins with 92 thread, so I need to find a heavier bobbin, which thanks to you, I know where to look for them.


God bless. JD   

[outrider]

JD,

Whatever thread you decide to use as a top thread...use one thread smaller in the bobbin...this way the bottom thread is drawn into the needle hole easier....makes for a nice bottom stitch  example:  207 top, 138 bottom....138 top, 92 bottom

[JD Alan]

I received my "sample" from American & Fird, the supplier of machine thread to Tandy. I had asked if they had black in the same size and make up of what I was already using. The sample they sent was a whole spool of the exact same thread as Tandy sells, only in black. I called to see how much I owed them, and they said it's a sample, don't worry about it. The white thread costs 39 bucks from Tandy, so for a "small guy" like me, that's a nice gift

I also discovered the local upholsterly supply house has loaded G spools in 138 thread, in balck and white.

Outrider, without you I would not have know the proper size bobbin, and lots of other machine stuff, so thanks very much! JD   

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

WW,

Here are some photos of the "Flames from Hell" holsters that I made for myself.  These holsters are cut to fit my Ruger New Model Vaqueros.  The red colored thread came from Weaver

    Outrider I sure do like the clean lines on this rig, and your sewing really captured the Flames of Hell holster perfectly just a nice looking rig altogether.

   JD your right about Outrider, he is a very helpful pard, I know he has helped me several times, Thanks again Outrider

                     tEN wOLVES 

[outrider]

Thanks for the nice comments...there are many in this forum that help out....that's what we do...we help our pardners...