Please help me diagnose my ailing R&M 51’ Navy conversions

[Dalion]

I have two Uberti R&M 51' Navy conversions in 38 Colt/Special.  I am unable to cock the hammer without manually rotating the cylinders at the same time.  Now if I point the pistol straight up I can cock them with ease.  It is only when they are held level or pointed downward that they fail to operate properly.  Has anyone had this experience before and if so what needs to be fixed?  I would appreciate any help you all can lend.

Shootist Dan

[Pettifogger]

Sounds like the hand spring is broke.  Easy gun to disassemble and an easy fix.  If you want to fix it permanently, install a Ruger pawl (what Ruger calls a hand) plunger and coil spring.

I reread your post and the symptoms are the exact opposite of a broken hand spring.  Are these new?  Have you ever shot them?  Did this problem start after shooting it, or is this the problem out of the box?  If new, you have probably pushed the wedge in to far and the cylinder is dragging on the back of the barrel.  Remove the wedge BUT do not remove the barrel.  Leave it fully seated.  Do you still have the problem?  Almost all Ubertis have poor arbor to barrel fit and the wedge can cause cylinder binding.  There was a two part article on how to fix them in the Cowboy Chronicle a couple of months ago.

[Montana Slim]

.....Now if I point the pistol straight up I can cock them with ease.  It is only when they are held level or pointed downward that they fail to operate properly...........

If they operated OPPOSITE to what you described, I'd say broken hand spring....Exactly as you state, I'd say hand is too long, or mis-shaped.

Regards,
Slim

[Dalion]

The guns are not new.  I've had them about 9 months and the problem has been progressive.  I bought the guns from a gunsmith new, and he slicked them up and they work well until about four months ago when they started to jam.  I found some metal burrs on the cylinder ratchet which I carefully cleaned up but the problem is now severe as the guns wouldn't work at all.  The cylinder spins freely when in half cock and there are no marks on the cylinder face from dragging on the barrel.  I put in a washer in from of the arbor to resolve the fit issue and haven't had a problem with that.  I guess I could send them back to the gunsmith I got them from but I sure hate to be without them.

[Montana Slim]

Dunno...maybe they've been over-gunsmithed.
I have a pair of RM 1860s in .44.... used them for years with no issues like you describe.
I assume the bolt is unlocking & locking correctly??

I'd lean towards sending them back to the smith.

Slim

[Flinch Morningwood]

I installed my own R&D gated conversion on a 51 and had a problem like this.

The length of the tip of the hand that contacts the cylinder is important (i.e. how far it sticks out into the cylinder opening).  It it is too long, the hand won't be able to advance as it is jamming against the cylinder. 

You have two main options:

1) Send back to smith.

2)  By 3 or 4 hands from VTI and adjust yourself.  Start with gring a little of the tip off the hand, polishing and re-installing.  When I say a "little," that's what I mean...it's ieasier to take a little more off than add it back on.  Polishing is important as part of this peices action (as I understand it) is a sliding action.  You will have to work the length as well....

Option two sounds like more work than it is... 3 or 4 hours should have it done and you will probably have 1 or 2 hands left over as spares....or you could send it to the smith.

[Dalion]

Thanks Little Al. I will try that.  If I can get it right with the replacement hands I still have the option of sending it back to the smith' since I am not working on the original part.

[Abilene]

Howdy Dalion,
That's kind of bizarre that both guns have the same odd problem.  I'm wondering how much endshake you have with the cylinders?  Sometimes with these type guns, the hand will stick it's slot in the frame if it is too far forward.  This generally does not happen with the cylinder installed, but if you take the cylinder out on some guns, the hand will jam in the slot as you try to cock it.  If you push the hand back into the slot with something as you pull the hammer, it will cock.  So if you have too much endshake then maybe it is allowing the hand to go too far forward unless the gun is aimed upward in which case the cylinder ratchet is pushing the hand back down into the slot.

Sometimes gunsmiths who aren't familiar with these guns will narrow the hand too much when they polish it and this also allows it to go too far forward and jam in the slot.  But since the guns worked at first and now are jamming, I'm not sure what that means.  I'd agree you might want to try fitting a new hand.  Good luck and let us know what you find out.