Any help identifying this 1851?

stvbird · November 29, 2009, 06:48:01 PM

Hey guys,
I just picked up a used .36 cal 1851 Navy Colt (clone) that I can't identify. It is the brass frame confederate style with the long octagonal barrel. The problem is, other than a serial number on the bottom of the frame (where they are supposed to be) there is not one mark anywhere on the gun. On the very bottom of the barrel if you oil it up really well you can barely make out what may say Y C L. The Y is really the only thing you can make out. It is very faint and lightly etched. The C L is a guess. No proof marks, no "made in", nothing, nada, ziltch. To my knowledge and that of a local classic gun shop, all of the euro clones have their legally required proof marks all over them, such as Uberti and Pietta. This thing is fairly old, with bluing is pretty much rusty brown in color now, and the wood on the grip has been around the block a time or two, but without markings, how can you date the thing or tell where it may have been from. Holding it next to a Pietta it is of way better quality even with it's age. It has a really smooth action and a nice trigger. Any ideas? Do all imports have to have proof marks by law? If it is older than I think then maybe I found a diamond in the rough, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'll be happy with it either way. Just curious as hell.

If anyone can shed some light on the subject I'd greatly appreciate it.

Joe Lansing · November 29, 2009, 07:14:43 PM

What kind of rifling does it have? Number of grooves; uniform or gain twist? Nipple threads and screw threads metric or American? Serial number range? Does it have safety pins? I see the hammer is cut for them. Describe the cylinder engraving. It appears to be the naval scene.

J.L.

Pettifogger · November 29, 2009, 07:31:04 PM

A lot of people like to remove the proof marks and writing to make them look older. Looking at how sharp the cylinder cuts and hammer face are it isn't an antique. The Italian guns started in the late 1950s and brass frame ones aren't terribly valuable.

Fingers McGee · November 30, 2009, 11:39:14 AM

The contours of the grips & frame look like an F.I.E. that was made in the 70s. What does the sight notch in the hammer look like? Is it square and does the hammer spur have lines cut across it instead of knurling or checkering?

You could also contact Jim Davis at RPRCA rprca@hotmail.com ; he might have an idea of it's pedigree.

FM

stvbird · November 30, 2009, 12:37:45 PM

I'm not a home right now but will check for the details you mention later. The hammer sight notch is a V to the best of my recollection. The cylinder has the Naval battle scene on it. Just out of curiosity, how does one remove stamped/engraved proofs or words without grinding down into the metal? The metal on this thing is smooth as if it is a virgin in that regard. By the way, what does F.I.E stand for?

Thanks

Forty Rod · November 30, 2009, 01:22:48 PM

Firearms Import and Export. I think they were out of Hialea, FL, but I may be confusing them with another company

Fingers McGee · November 30, 2009, 02:07:30 PM

Quote from: Forty Rod on November 30, 2009, 01:22:48 PM
Firearms Import and Export. I think they were out of Hialea, FL, but I may be confusing them with another company

That's who they are - er, I mean were. I don't think anyone really knows who actually made the FIE guns.

Depending on how deep the markings were, they can be removed without much trouble using a file & sandpaper without changing the dimensions of the frame/barrel they are removed from. IIRC, most kit guns from back in the day didnt have many, or any markings on them anyhow.

Major 2 · November 30, 2009, 03:07:37 PM

40Rod is spot on.... Firearms Import and Export spelled Hialeah, Florida
I though it was an FIE myself.... I had been to their old 33 st Warehouse a few times way back when.
They imported both Spanish made replicas and I believe Palmetto Arms from the Italians.
They had Kit line and these were Spanish.

to answer your other question
Rust Brown ?
I get a good finish on a gun in white, by first using a cold blue which I mostly remove with white vinegar...then heat the metal & card a few coats of Birchwood Casey plum brown... 0000 steel wool it I get the desired look

I have no idea how many guns I've defarbed way to many to remember.