Need Gun ID

[Dave Cole]

I figured you pards would know this better than I would.I have a customer wanting to trade this gun for a new knife.The gun has no manufacturer's marking and is sterile except for the s/n and 44 Special on the barrel.It's has wear but overall not bad.If nothing else it will be a good mold for my holster making.Thanks. Dave

[St. George]

Since this forum deals with weapons of the actual period - I's suggest you re-post your query over on the 'Shooter's Forum' or the 'Gunsmithing' forum.

Actually, I recommend you do both.

You'll have better luck there, I'm sure.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Dave Cole]

Thanks for your help, I'll head over that way.Dave

[Joe Lansing]

    Judging from the grips and the oval trigger guard, and if it has an in frame firing pin, I'd say it looks like a Great Western Arms revolver made in California during the '50's and early '60's. If so, all of the parts (except the hammer/firing pin assembly) are interchangeable with Colt's. If you GOOGLE Great Western Arms there is a site that lists serial numbers and dates of manufacture. This is potentially a very, very nice find.

                                                                     J.L. 

[St. George]

Great Western Firearms 

History

In the beginning, there was the Colt Single Action Army Revolver, and it was good.

Hell, for its day it was bloody marvelous—light, well-balanced, easy to maintain, extremely well finished—and in its first issue was manufactured in many configurations and a zillion calibers.  It was produced from 1873 until 1941, when the clouds of war darkened the European skies, and Colt was needed to concentrate on very modern handguns and machineguns.  Besides, the SAA machinery was a little long in the tooth and interest in the old "Peacemaker" had waned.  Production ended at #357,589, and very few tears were shed.  Then came television and the TV western in the '50s.

New interest in the SAA started early among the nation's shooter/collectors, and the studios needed more "hoglegs."

Entrepreneur and firearms enthusiast William R. Wilson recognized the need and the opportunity.  In 1953 after a trip to Hartford confirmed that Colt had no interest in resuming its SAA production, Wilson returned to Los Angeles where he and his two partners—a stockbroker and a prominent surgeon—founded the Great Western Arms Company to produce an almost-exact clone of the old Model P for television and movie westerns.  The only real difference was the spring-loaded "floating" firing pin in the frame.  Colt hammers were an option.  Warners, Fox, Universal, Disney, Columbia, RKO, MGM, and Paramount (Republic was gone) all purchased Great Westerns in .45 Colt in order to utilize 5-in-one blanks.

Another Hollywood entrepreneur and gunshop owner, Hy Hunter, became involved in the marketing and promotion of the Great Western firearm.  In addition to the Peacemaker copy, Great Western manufactured a close copy of the Remington derringer in .38 Special and .38 S&W centerfire calibers.  Both the Great Western revolver and derringer were 100% manufactured in Los Angeles.  "Kit" guns with the #0 prefix were offered at a lower cost.

During the years of manufacture, Great Western revolvers and derringers were presented to many notable Americans, à la Sam Colt.  Many finishes and gold and silver inlays were offered, and hand engraving was almost always executed by Carl E. Courts of Long Beach.  Probably the most elaborate and historic Great Western is a .38 Special, 5-1/2" model presented to President Eisenhower in 1955.         

Regular calibers in the Great Western line were:  .22LR, .22 Magnum, .38 Special, .357 Atomic, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt.  The name "Atomic" was used to take advantage of the sense of power of the nuclear weapons of the fifties, and a higher velocity .357 round was actually produced and tested by Weatherby.  The cartridge case was dimensionally a standard .357 Magnum and would be considered a "+P" today.  The round was allegedly manufactured by Herter's and headstamped ".357 Atomic" but cartridge collectors have yet to see one. Most .44 Magnum cylinders are .050" longer at the recoil shield to allow for a recessed case head.

A few .22 Hornet revolvers have been seen but never cataloged.  Some original Colt SAA calibers (.38WCF, .44WCF) were cataloged, but only a single .44-40 factory barrel roll marking has been observed.  The .30 Carbine round was listed in late catalogs, but none have been recorded.  Empirical evidence suggests that the .22LR was far and away the most common caliber, accounting for 50% of total sales.

Serial numbering followed the 1920s style of first-generation Colts:  marked on the frame in front of the trigger guard, on the trigger guard, on the back strap (under the grips), on the rear face of the cylinder (last three digits), and on the rear of the barrel (under the ejector tube).  Use of the "GW" prefix to the number seems to have been arbitrary during the production run.  Derringers never used the "GW" prefix.

Although Great Western single actions beat both the Colt second-generation SAA and the Ruger Blackhawk to the marketplace, the earnest little Miner Street company couldn't compete with the big boys.  By 1962 the Great Western Arms Company was gone.

All information from Bob Deubel's site.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Cole Younger]

No real way to tell without better pics.  It has the look of a Hawes Frontier Marshall.  I don't know if they came in .44 Spec. or not.  They were available in a lot of calibers.  The Great Western was a good call too.  From the limited view on the pic though, my guess is a Colt SAA that has been buffed to the extent that most of the identification is gone.  The grip frame and backstrap appear shiny and could have been polished that way and left or it could be nickel, silver or chrome.  The screw holes from here, appear rounded a bit, which is a clue as to a refinished gun. 

[Daniel Nighteyes]

No real way to tell without better pics.  It has the look of a Hawes Frontier Marshall. 

That was my first thought as well.

[Don Nix]

My initial opinion was that same, that it was a Hawes.
they made that weapon in a 44.

I have a Hawes that my dad bought me in the early  sixties. I remember  well the salesman showing us the 44 and and then a 22 cal that was identical. He said it was a 44 sleeved down ro fit a 22. my dad bought it for me to carry camping. I was 12 or thirteen.
The barrel and cylinders are indeed sleeved. it is still a good shooting gun but the finish has now taken a beating.
i would like to have the 44 mate to the 22. But ive never run across one since.

[Joe Lansing]

    I just found pictures of Great Western single action revolvers in my book "Standard Catalog of Firearms",2nd edition, page 208, which clearly shows the pattern of the imitation stag grips. They are an exact match. Like a fingerprint, I think this proves the pistol is a Great Western.

                                                                         J.L.

[Wolfgang]

    I just found pictures of Great Western single action revolvers in my book "Standard Catalog of Firearms",2nd edition, page 208, which clearly shows the pattern of the imitation stag grips. They are an exact match. Like a fingerprint, I think this proves the pistol is a Great Western.
                                                                         J.L.

The grips are a dead ringer.   Recognizable in an instant.  And no one would ever have taken them ugly fake stag grips and put them on some better pistol