mould recommendations-.44 WCF, 38spl?

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

I'm gonna start casting here soon, and I've been reading/thinking about it fer a long time.  There are so many moulds out there, it's hard to decide which ones to get.  Like everything else in this sport, opinions are all over the place, contradictory, and just plain confusin'.  So, I'm hoping to add to the confusion by soliciting a few more opinions.

I'd be grateful if ya'll could tell me about yer favorites for:

.44 WCF (RNFP, 200gr or so, dia. .428)

.38spl (RNFP, anywhere from 125-158gr or so; dia. .357)

.45 Colt (RNFP, 200-250gr, dia. .452)

Also, what type moulds do ya like? iron, steel, aluminum?  Any brands in particular? RCBS, Lee, Lyman, Saeco?

Many Thanks!  

[Jefro]

Well if you're gonna shoot Black Powder, then Big Lube is the way to go. For smokeless I use the Lee six cavities, .38 125gr RNFP the most, and 158gr RNFP sized .358. For 44/40-200gr RNFP sized .429. And .45-200gr RNFP sized .452. The 44/40 is for the Uberti Win 73 only, that's why they are sized .429. There is a learning curve to the Lee six cavities, main thing is to start with molds hot, and keep your lead hot. When I pour I use two molds, preheat one on a hot plate, and one on top of the pot. There are plenty of other choices for smokeless, but most are two cavity. IMHO the Star lubsizer is a must, once you use one you'll see why. The folks over at Cast Boolits are a big help. Good Luck.
http://www.biglube.com/
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/


Jefro

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks, Jefro, I appreciate the advice.  
I'll definitely be getting a Mav Dutchman for the .44-40.  But I need smokeless moulds, too. I've found that my Uberti Win '73 is pretty accurate with boolits sized .428.  I haven't slugged the barrel, though. But I did slug the Rodeo .44's, and they like .428's.
I found a 4 cavity, steel .44 WCF by Lyman that looks pretty good but I haven't found any feedback from shooters or casters on it.  And I'm definitely gonna get a Star.  I'll check out those Lee .38's that you recommend.  Thanks again!

PS: Do you lube M.D. Big Lubes with a Star?  I'm just wonderin' how the Magma sizing dies work with big Big Lubes?

[Jefro]

PS: Do you lube M.D. Big Lubes with a Star?  I'm just wonderin' how the Magma sizing dies work with big Big Lubes?

Howdy JD, yes I use the Stars for all my bullets, I have one for smokeless and one for BP. One will do, just use the same lube for smokeless that you use for BP. The stock Magma will work, but you may have to run a few twice depending on the lube stiffness. You can just order them with an extra set of holes and plug up what you don't need with #8 shot, shot is included with die. Tell them to add an extra row 1/8'' OC from the stock ones. Or if you want them custom, Lathesmith sells them for less than Magma, I have several of both with double rows. Good Luck.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=65536&highlight=lathesmith

Jefro

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Excellent info, Jefro, I appreciate it!  I'll check out Lathesmith, too.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Fairshake]

JD I'm friends with Chris(Lathesmith) on the Cast Boolits forum. He and I got together last year and designed a Star sizing die that works for the Big Lube molds. It has just one row of holes that aligned with the lube groove. Just tell him you want the Big Lube die and he will know what to give you. I go by Cajun Shooter on that forum. The best all around cast bullet for the 44-40 is the Lyman 427098. You will find it is used by most shooters. It is the original bullet design and still works well today. It was desighned to be used with BP and has no crimp groove. When using it with smokeless powder it is best to use the Lee factory crimp die so that it is not pushed back in the case by seating or the use in lever guns. There are several discussions on this subject on the CB forum if you do a search. A friend of mine by the handle of W30WCF who is on this forum has done exstenisive work with the 44-40 and can answer any question you have about that bullet. I have the Mav Dutchman also but for all around shooting the Lyman wins out.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks for the info, Fairshake.  I'm definitely gonna get one of those Big Lube sizing dies.

I'm not familiar with the 427098.  All the .44-40 bullets I reload have the crimp groove.  I googled the 427098 and the diagram I found isn't real clear--it has 2 grooves. Are they both lube grooves? 

The mould I was leaning towards is the Lyman 427666.  It has the one lube groove and a crimp groove, weighs 200gr.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

As I'm researching, I just came across a pretty good article by Mike Venturini about the history and current use of the .44WCF.  It's from June, '05, Rifle Magazine's Handloader.  Interestingly, Venturino's favorite bullet is the RCBS 44-200FN.

The article loads as a .pdf, so you need Acrobat Reader to open it:

http://www.cowboybullets.com/Documents/H1.pdf

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is the link to the Lyman mould chart;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,19822.0.html

The Lyman 427098 is the classic bullet for the 44-40.  I have found that the RCBS 44-200-FP works well in most .44s.  I use it at .429 unsized, or .427 for the .44-40.  Mike Venturino also seems to use this bullet as the standard to which he compares other .44 bullets.

My .38 Special bullet is the RCBS .38-140-CM.  Neither are BIG LUBE, but seem to hold enough lube for my purposes, even with GOEX.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks, Sir Charles.  That's helpful. (I read somewhere that the 427098 is more accurate than the Mav Dutchman, so I may forego the latter).  I'm a little confused by one thing, though.  You wrote:

I use it at .429 unsized, or .427 for the .44-40. 

Does this mean you shoot it at .429 in something other than the .44-40?  Or that you shoot either size in the .44-40?

I have another issue.
I just slugged my '73 rifle, and my calipers tell me .429 and the mic says .430.  I'll have to check it again in better light, but for the sake of argument I'll say it's .4295 (Uberti machines for .429).

My revolvers are tighter--.4265 to .427 (I need another, better slug. I barely got the last one into the barrel).  For argument, I'll say it's .427.

I've been shooting mainly 20-1 .428's.  I get fair accuracy with the revolvers.  But surprisingly, I got really good accuracy with the '73.  If the bullets are really a couple of thousandths smaller than the bore, I'd expect worse performance.  Of course, they could be obdurating enough to fill the bore.  I can't remember if I've tried hard casts, yet.

The issue is whether to get a .428 sizing die, and just use soft lead for all three guns, or to also get a .429 or .430, and cast for rifle and handguns separately?  I know the answer will ultimately depend on my specific guns and what they like, but with my very limited budget I need to start off with a die that'll work as well as possible in all the guns.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I use .427 in my OM Vaqueros, as I can't chamber anything larger.  I have an original 1873, but relined.  I haven't slugged the rifle, but it works great with the .427, though it would chamber a larger bullet.  Some folks re-chambered their OMVs to take .429-430 bullets, but I didn't bother.  A lot of expense & bother for an imaginary problem.

I leave them at .429, as cast but run through my lubricizer, for .44 Mag and 11.8mm German M83 Reichsrevolver.

For CAS use, sizing is less critical and focusses more on what size bullet will chamber in your firearms rather than on accuracy or leading.  Neither of the last two issues have ever showed up for me.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Heh!  Look whats on evil-bay

http://cgi.ebay.ca/RCBS-44200-DBL-PISTOL-BULLET-MOLD-MOULD-44-40CAL-200GR_W0QQitemZ220515093802QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3357b94d2a

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Wow, good find!  It's getting kinda high, though. If there's much more bidding it'll be as expensive as a new one. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Call MIDSOUTH.  They are usually below list prices.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

I'll do that, thank you. 

Do you have any suggestions for a good .38 Spl mould?  My wife shoots .38 (and .357 cases with reduced charges in her Marlin) for CAS.

[Dr. Bob]

JD,

I have been shooting the Mav Dutchman from a couple of different sources in a 1872 open top and a 1860 Henry and they have proven more accurate than I am.  I ain't too bad a shot.   I am loading them in 44 Russian cases, but the Henry was originally chambered in 44 WCF.  Good shooting!

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks, Dr. Bob! 
I ordered my first batch of MD's recently from Springfield Slim, and they've worked out very well.  Especially in my '73 Win/Uberti, which can shoot them all day without wiping or cleaning. 

[Fairshake]

JD, If you load with BP then the 427098 is the way to go as it has two lube grooves. It holds right at 1 grain of lube where the others only hold like .7 or so. The way that it's loaded is that it is crimped in the lead with a Lee FCD above the top lube groove. It can be loaded with smokeless but you will have to use the LeeFCD for it to work. Some people have a problem loading with smokeless because the bullet is not supported with a full case of powder and requires the Lee die to keep it from moving. A fellow forum member W30WCF has done extensisive work with this bullet and different lubes. It has shown to be the most accurate for anything past 50 yds. The Mav Dutchman is a great choice for your normal CAS targets with BP but fails in the LR test. In my molds the bullet drops at around 429 with an alloy of 20-1. My rifle slugs at 427 and these work great. They have a BHN of about 10 I use a lube die that is 428.5 and it does the job.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

It has shown to be the most accurate for anything past 50 yds. The Mav Dutchman is a great choice for your normal CAS targets with BP but fails in the LR test. In my molds the bullet drops at around 429 with an alloy of 20-1. My rifle slugs at 427 and these work great. They have a BHN of about 10 I use a lube die that is 428.5 and it does the job.

I've never shot the MD at anything past 50 yds.  I guess I should give it a try, see how they do. 
Sounds like the 427098 drops from the mould about perfect for my rifle, and a tad large for the revolvers though not enough to fret about.  Where did you get a .4285 die, if I may ask?  Did Lathesmith make it? Or is it a .428 that's a hair over?  That sounds like a perfect dia. sizer for my needs.

I went ahead and ordered an RCBS 44-200-FN for smokeless loads.  Can't wait to try it out!

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Update:

I just received the RCBS 44-200-FN. Good looking/feeling mould. Too bad it's just a 2 cav.  Also got the Lee 358-158, 6 cav for the wife's guns.  And I ordered a .44-40 Lee FCD, per Fairshake's recommendation.  Need to save a few pesos up and get the 427098. 

Soon as my smelting lead gets here I'll be in biznis
(funny thing--the postman left me a notice saying they "tried to deliver it" today, and I can pick it up tomorrow at the P.O.  My wife was home all day and never heard a knock.  How much you wanta bet that the postman didn't want to get out of his warm little truck on this cold day and haul 50+ pounds of lead to my porch, so he left the note...?)

Yep, it's as bad as buying reloading stuff.  And just as fun!    Nothing's as fun as buying guns, though.