Non-CAS: Assistance Requested

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Pards,

I have a WWII Navy Mark I Dummy Training Rifle that is absolutely complete in all respects, including the original leather sling. (It even has its complete and undamaged bayonet and scabbard!) As you may know, finding one of these rifles with its bayonet and all its parts intact is difficult; finding one with an original leather sling is practically impossible.  Though it is also complete, the sling is dried out and rather delicate, and shows the degradation typical of having a petroleum-based oil applied to it back in its "youth".  Here's the assistance I'm requesting.

Is there a leather dressing or something that I can apply to the sling to keep it relatively intact, without significantly degrading its value as a rare collectible?  Specific product names, etc will be most appreciated.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

   Daniel, I use www.skidmores.com  Skidmores Leather Cream is the best I've found to rejuvenate old leather, but you might want to talk to Chuck Burrows on this, you wouldn't want to take away from the value of the piece if old and worn is what you're looking for.

       Regards

    tEN wOLVES   

[panhead pete]

Nice Find Daniel!

I recommend Montana Pitch blend or Bick 4.  Montana Pitch blend will darken the leather a shade or so.  Bick 4 will not change the color.  There is another product I believe it is called Leather Rescue??!!  It may be the best I don't know where to get it.  Montana Pitch blend is usually stocked at Red Wing stores.  Who knows, they may tell you to bring the sling in and oil it for free.

Good luck,

Panhead Pete

[Daniel Nighteyes]

 ... you wouldn't want to take away from the value of the piece if old and worn is what you're looking for.

Ten Wolves,

First, thanks for responding so quickly.  Second, I'm not all that interested in "old and worn" -- its got that in spades already .

Instead, I'm looking for something that will re-moisten and "rehabilitate" the leather so that it doesn't fall apart on me, and something that will help retain its collector value.  I will check out the product you mentioned.

Will also check with Chuck as you suggested.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

I recommend Montana Pitch blend or Bick 4.  Montana Pitch blend will darken the leather a shade or so.  Bick 4 will not change the color.  There is another product I believe it is called Leather Rescue??!!  It may be the best I don't know where to get it.  Montana Pitch blend is usually stocked at Red Wing stores.  Who knows, they may tell you to bring the sling in and oil it for free.

Pete,

Thanks!  I'm about 6 miles from a combination Red Wing shoe store and shoe repair shop where I'm already known.  Will follow up on your suggestion.  BTW, since the leather is already almost black with age, I don't think darkening it is an issue...

[GunClick Rick]

After ya do it put it in a long frame with glass and hang er on the wall

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Daniel, in that case the Skidmores will work fine, and put life back into your leather. I keep forgetting you live in the area, you could give CowboyWC a pm, he's the owner of Standing Bears Trading Post, he caries it there, that's where I get mine.


         Regards

   tEN wOLVES 

[Daniel Nighteyes]

After ya do it put it in a long frame with glass and hang er on the wall

Yup.  Now all I need is a "Nighteyes Cave" so I can have a wall to hang 'er on...  

I've been seriously thinking about creating a wall for my stuff.  Consider a Northern Plains breastplate, a couple of 'hawks, a Southern Plains bow with arrows and all the trimmings, a ceremonial lance, a tacked Henry rifle and a tacked '66 Winchester, and miscellaneous items in one area, and another area consisting of the Dummy Training Rifle and  my prized collections of WWII-thru-Vietnam edged weapons.  Ahhhhh....

[saddler]

The saddler that trained me swore by this - I use it on a daily basis & everyone I have sold to in the last 5 years has agreed that it's as good as I'd said it was...

It costs about £5GB a tin & will last most folk at least a decade, possibly two

If the sling is black (through sweat, oil, etc.) I'd maybe 1st wash it in "just warm" or maybe cold water, using a soap that has no perfume/scent (not sure what brands in the US match this description)
Then - once the sling has completely air-dried, use a good leather dressing, sparingly, allowing it to penetrate the leather. Repeat applications until you get the result you want...

Jon

[ChuckBurrows]

I'm always hesitant to approach this subject since leather restoration of old and especially damaged leather is a complicated issue and when it comes to doing it right I defer to the experts - museum conservators. This is especially so when leather is fragile like this sling sounds like and it also sounds like it's been damaged by gun oil which takes special care to repair properly.
So in a case like yours Daniel, my first suggestion is to contact a professional leather conservator (I worked with one for a while and their methods can be very different than the common ones used by leather crafters - the methods are often based on tests done to the leather), but if that isn't possible or not your choice, than please read this very good article written by a conservator:
http://www.garciaaviation.com/conserve.html

With all due respect to the others who have answered, there is old dried out leather and then there is old DAMAGED leather and of the latter I've seen far too many pieces that have been ruined by folks (even experienced leather crafters who are generally not trained in conservation/repair techniques) using the wrong "tool" for the job.
For instance washing with saddle soap and/or adding a conditioner, which might work well on new leather or older dried out leather, can in fact cause damage i.e. old oil will acidify over time and adding more can exacerbate the problem and cause irreversible damage. Often times in old damged leather the cell walls have broken down and the integrity of the leather is lost - adding a conditioner in this case will often just increase the damage - I've seen it happen, what was once a prized possesion becomes a soggy, shapeless mess. In a case like that the piece needs to be stabilized rather than conditioned (or a combo of both with the conditoning if need be coming after the stabilization) and then stored properly (keep it out of the sun for one)

Personally - without examining the piece first hand I won't offer any suggestions other than those I've listed above...and FWIW even then I would still recommend a professional conservator in this case since it is a "rare" piece. If you're a member of the NRA they may be able to recommend a conservator or other course of action.

[GunClick Rick]

How about taking some old but still good leather and make a replica,and when ya frame it have the original lying below it for posterity As a matter of fact i have a piece i am sure will work and you can have it,i'll take a picture of it  and post it fer ya.
Yours if ya want it idon't use it,just send address to curly54@sbcglobal.net


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/beltsling002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/beltsling004.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/gunclickrick/beltsling005.jpg

[Dr. Bob]

The NRA Museum has some technical folks that maintain the collection.  They might be able to guide you.  The director is Jim Supica who is a collector and I am sure that they would be happy to talk with you.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Good answer Chuck, I knew you would have better insight on this than most of us, Thanks for jumping in.

             There you go Daniel, maybe the NRA can give a method of doing this, or where you could send it to have it done, it's funny how what we think is going to be a simple job , turns out to much more involved, good luck with this and let us know how it turns out.


          Regards

     tEN wOLVES 

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Thanks to all, and especially to Chuck Burrows.  Now I'm wondering if the Autry Western Heritage Center might have a leather conservator on staff or contract.  (One of the many neat things about living in the LA area is easy access to quite a number of major museums, and the staffs of same.)

Rick, thanks for the offer.  I have a reproduction leather sling that will serve as you suggest.

If I can get around to it, will take a few pics of the items in question, and post 'em here.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

[ChuckBurrows]

Danile - I have no doubt that the Autry Center would have one on staff or know of a local one - that's the only "bad" thing about living in the boonies - few places like the Autry close to hand.....but the other advantages (like stepping out on the porch to shoot) far out weigh the "bad" parts......

glad to help a fellow (unregistered) Choctaw - my 2 times great grand mama on my mother's side was a full -blood from south Louisiana......

[JD Alan]

Hey Daniel, JD here. We met at Piru earlier this year. Looks like you got a great find and received some good information to boot. I wish you the best.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

well howdy, JD!  Good to "see" you again!  Sorry I missed your post until just now.

-- Nighteyes