Super blackhawk Hammer into OM Vaquero

[yeti76620]

I started SASS / CAS April '06 with a borrowed pair of Roooger 10" barrel 44mag Super Blackhawks and just loved it!  Things progressed around 6 months and purchased a pair of Old Model Vaquero's in 357mag manufactured in 1997.  I like the SBH hammers better and asked a Pard 'bout swap-n SBH's into my OMV's and he said that it was illegal in SASS Traditional Class.  Now I'm seeing the new SASS Vaquero and the USFA Rodeo going to this low profile hammer and think this is due to the SASS rule and classification changes.  I'm looking into doing this hammer swap again and found a thread in "Gunsmithing" on May 16, 2009 titled "Colt style hammer spurs for OM Vaquero" and they tossed this issue around a bit but nothing definitive.  Pettifogger seemed to know a bit more on the subject and my personal message has been unanswered for one reason or another.  I suppose that this question belongs in "Gunsmithing" except this is a question about Rooogers specifically and I'm interested (NOT LIMITED TO) in the answers from my fellow R.A.T.S. Brethren.  

The Questions:

1. How difficult is it to put SBH hammers into a OM Vaquero, do they just jump in?
2. In doing so is it "illegal" in SASS, NCOWS, etc.?
3. Those who've done this, how does it work out and who gives you grief?
4. Are there any unforeseen drawbacks?
5. Any other comments are welcome.

Yeti76620

[Mustang Gregg]

Yeti:

I numbered your questions for ease of answering & others who want to comment.

1.  No gunsmithing should be needed.  I've changed several betwixt centerfire frames.  

2. Definately NOT legal for NCOWS.  
But they are fine for mounted shooting.  
I recollect SASS did ease up on the change.  Best re-check the SASS regs.  Pale Wolf McBrule (SASS rules expert on the SASS Wire) could answer it right off.  I can't.  Sorry.

3. I DO like the hammer change.  NO GRIEF!  No one has ever bitched about them.  Also see 5.

4. Drawback?  Draw-back?   Excuse the pun.   Possibly the rules. And there's more hammer spur to catch on the release if you're a "thumb dragger".

5. My wife's consecutive K-.44 Vaqueros came new with a SBk hammers & grip frames.  I recollect they were Davison's specials.  She used them like that for a couple of years & I changed to the "normal Vaquero" hammer, so's no one would call foul ball.  And no one ever did.

Any one else???  Please chime in with comments on this hammer topic.

MG

[yeti76620]

Welcome Back Lt. Col. for noticed yer absence and I was a bit worried, Hope all is well!

Thanks for the trails to mosey down and around on and I report back as to what I "Scout" out there on this thread for all the others.  I'd bet that a BP "Gunfighter" like yourself like that low-n-wide hammer!     I know I sure did with my big mitts squaw-gripen.  I'm also thank-n ye for the number-n of those questions, thought 'bout it after the post and I couldn't take it back!   

Yeti76620

[yeti76620]

It's kinda looking like a bit narcissistic answering my own questions and all but I'm doing it for anyone else whom might be interested and not looking to post.    

With the time saving direction of Mustang Gregg this is what I found in rules:

1) Couldn't find Pale Wolf McBrule but the SASS handbook version January 2009 on page 4 under "Hammers" pretty much addresses this directly and it is OK.  There are some restrictions for some other hammers and the SASS handbook should be consulted!

2) Western 3 Gun rules handbook is broken at this time on their Web Page so Please let the W3G'ers chime in!

3) I can sure see why the Lt. Col. put NCOWS in bold, after reading their "By Laws" it is of my opinion that this group of folks are far too Luddite for me and I think that they would not appreciate me.  If a war breaks out and these folks are following NCOWS rules of engagement keep them in front of you!  God Bless Their Hearts!

I'm assume'n that a "Thumb Dragger" is one who does the slip-hammer method, I found that these folks have a lot of misses 'cept AZ Redneck but he lets one get away!  Can't slip-hammer too well with Big Loads that I spit out.

Lt. Col., If the Mrs. is miss-n those big hammers I'd say no holler-n aloud any more to put them .44's back to original.[size]

[Jbar4Ranch]

Pale Wolf Brunelle - http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showuser=346

[yeti76620]

Pale Wolf Brunelle - http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showuser=346

Thanks Pard,

Good to have knowledgeable and informed Gents watch-en people's "six" out there!     

Do ya have any input 'bout the other group's rules on this subject or even your own thoughts would be appreciated?   

Thanks,
Yeti76620

[Mustang Gregg]

Other comments on other groups on the Ruger subject--

NCOWS only allows Vaqueros (both OM & NM).
You can change only grips & finish & springs.
>Nothing with a Bisley gripframe allowed.
>Nothing with a Super Blackhawk gripframe allowed.
>No Blackhawks allowed.
>Nothing with a Birdhead allowed.
>No Single Sixes (not even in .32) allowed.
>No Bearcats, of course.
I'm not in the NCOWS anymore, so I hope I'm correct on these.
Their outfit is much more into trying to be historically accurate in appearance.
And Ruger revolvers weren't around in the 1800's.  

Mounted shooters have a lot more leeway with Ruger six-shooters (from the last I read).
Bisleys, Vaq's, Blackhacks, Montados, etc are all allowed with the lower type SBlk or Bisley hammers.
I think .45 is still the only caliber allowed, though.  And ammo is not "homemade.

If anything above is contradicting the latest rules, please correct me.


J-4 Ranch:

Thanks for posting Pale Wolf's info.  He's a wealth of SASS rules knowlege & history of the rules & changes.  I met him at the SASS convention of 2007.  He's a TG for sevreal SASS clubs, I recollect.  A hell of a nice guy, too!

Your Pard,
MG

[yeti76620]

Other comments on other groups on the Ruger subject--

NCOWS only allows Vaqueros (both OM & NM).
You can change only grips & finish & springs.
>Nothing with a Bisley gripframe allowed.
>Nothing with a Super Blackhawk gripframe allowed.
>No Blackhawks allowed.
>Nothing with a Birdhead allowed.
>No Single Sixes (not even in .32) allowed.
>No Bearcats, of course.
I'm not in the NCOWS anymore, so I hope I'm correct on these.
Their outfit is much more into trying to be historically accurate in appearance.
And Ruger revolvers weren't around in the 1800's.  


Your Pard,
MG

Morn-n MG!

Yer correct 'bout them NCOWS folks and our prized Rooogers.  I'm not really understanding why they'd let the OM & NM Vaquero's be a "legal" pistol at all!  Roooger was not a 1800's firearms company.  They allow any Bisley but the Vaquero, all the other manufacturers .32 cal's, grip types, and back straps etc.  I say If-n they want to be so Historically correct then NO exceptions!  Heck I'd even go so far as no replicas either if the club's being discriminating.           Their bat-n- ball and their game and God Bless Their Hearts!   

But I digress and this thread is 'bout Super Blackhawk hammers into Vaquero's NOT NCOWS!

Now how 'bout those Western 3 Gunner's rules?  Anyone have any input on put-n in these low-wide hammers into Vaqueros?   

Respectfully to ALL,
Yeti76620

[Mustang Gregg]

Rev:

I think W3G would allow them.  In fact, I'll try to check that out.  
A couple of AZ friends of mine have shot W3G.  They'd probably know right off.

W3G has a website.  It may have a rules page that'd tell us.

Back to the NCOWS allowing Vaqueros, but not other Ruger six-guns.  
They do because back when they started out, there were not many other good six-shooters other than Colts.  And Colts are pricey!  
I never understood the logic of allowing foreign-made clones of Colts, but not the USA-built Rugers, either, but I don't want the RATS forum to become a pi$$in' match over hard feelings.

Your Pard,
MG

[yeti76620]

Eve'n-n Lt. Col.,

Yes Sir MG I totally agree "bout NO P-n Match on this fine Board and I did decree this in my post when I said that I "digressed"; furthermore, no one should have hard feelings for it's their game and I don't have to play.  Some unusual stuff, God Bless Their Hearts!  I'm just looking for some FACTs for myself an all.  You have been instrumental in show-n some trails to scout out, your the best!

The W3G's web sight seems to be broken or inaccessible by my computer where it comes to their rule book.  I invited in a personal message to one of the W3G Board Moderators to supply a comment earlier today on this thread, just haven't heard from him.  I am kinda think-n it'll be OK too, maybe.  Thanks again for all you do Lt. Col.

Respectfully,

Yeti76620

[Mustang Gregg]

Rev:

I just left their W3G site.  And I had trouble with it too! 
But when I finally got to the rules page, it was located at:

http://x3multigun.com/western3gun/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=28

MG

[yeti76620]

Thank Much MG,

This thread at this time has 125 views and 10 comments plus this one.  Makes me kind of embarrassed that I'm the only one with a curiosity on this subject and sprawling it on this fine R.A.T.S. board.  I appreciate your responses and guidance's MG plus the help of Jbar4Ranch by in the  least showing that I'm NOT schizophrenic!      Without ya'll this would be my little EGO thread and that is just wrong; consequently, with your all help the rule has been researched and published on this matter for all.

Unless something new arises, it looks like the W3G folks have NO objection per the rules that the Lt. Col. was able to locate in the previous response; however, I was unable to get any further rules as per the bottom request of this W3G page......Still Broke.       Gotta love this rule page, SHORT & SIMPLE and all about FUNNNNN!!!!  God Bless Their Hearts!!!!!

An Official W3G response is still requested. PLEASE!

FYI:  I got my SBH hammers today at the old price of $28.00 ea from Midway plus S&H and I'm one happy EGOTIST!  As I see it, in SASS & W3G events if you have an issue with my SBH hammers on my OMV find a sand box 'cause ya don't have a cloud to rain on my parade!   

I bid you all well, good shoot-n, a hole bunch of FUN as this MATTER IS CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely,
Yeti76620

P.S.  Thanks again Lt. Col MG

[yeti76620]

Greetings to all visitors viewing this thread,  

Well I finally got those Super Blackhawk hammers into my Ruger Vaqueros.  My first hurdle was deciding to "sack up" and get inside that revolver.  I sure made a mountain out of a mole hill, simplicity and awesome parts is what gives the meaning to RATS.  Just indestructible!  

My second hurdle was the pictures in this post for I only wrote it three times but when it came to adding the pictures the file is too big and SORRY Marshal Hollaway but there are some over-sized posts screwing with the cyber-space!

A well known "Camp Cook" who is learner-ed in this problem help me through this so that I can share the finals of this thread with the visuals.

So here it goes and thanks again to ya'll    

Yeti76620

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

       Looks good Veti, if your thumb misses that thing, you might want to see a plastic sturgen, and have him make you a bigger thumb, LOL, I hope this works well for you, and thanks for sharing with us, and the pictures.

          Regards

        tEN wOLVES 

[yeti76620]

       Looks good Veti, if your thumb misses that thing, you might want to see a plastic sturgen, and have him make you a bigger thumb, LOL, I hope this works well for you, and thanks for sharing with us, and the pictures.

          Regards

        tEN wOLVES 

yO tEN wOLVES,

I already own big 'ol long-fat thumbs.....that's the problem.......ALL THUMBS!!!!!!!   

Yeti

[yeti76620]

Update Report:

Shot those OMV with the SBH hammers yesterday and I loved them!  I haven't shot since I put 'em in and they turned out to be everything that I had expected.  The sight picture is less obstructed too....or maybe I was just paying more attention to it...LOL   

Yeti76620

[Pappy Myles]

So where can one order the SBH hammers?   I have a pair of OMV's in 45 and starting to get arthrisus in the thumps.......man does it give me fits when I pull back the hammer

[yeti76620]

So where can one order the SBH hammers?   I have a pair of OMV's in 45 and starting to get arthrisus in the thumps.......man does it give me fits when I pull back the hammer

Well Pappy,... I ordered one from Midway and the other from Brownells and they cost around $35 ea with S&H at the time.  They get them from Rooooger directly as can you.     

Good Luck with that Ol' Pard

Yeti76620

[Adirondack Jack]

So where can one order the SBH hammers?   I have a pair of OMV's in 45 and starting to get arthrisus in the thumps.......man does it give me fits when I pull back the hammer

Check with Ruger, then if they say out of stock, go on Midway or Brownells, and if they say out of stock, backorder OK, just order em.  They'll get here eventually.  AND THEY ARE WORTH IT.

[Pappy Myles]

Yep, on back order from Brownells...............I'm on the list