Historic Photos/GAF weapons

[Drydock]

Movin' pichers!

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/edac.html#W

[Charles Isaac]

These are some guys that are the reason we went from the .38 New Army/Navy Revolver to reissued M1873 SAAs and a couple of other .45 Colt caliber revolvers, finally ending up with the M1911.

They aren't large men, but they are very tough and incredibly agile - more than a match for an above average Soldier or Marine in close combat. If they are fatally wounded, but still able to fight, they will still go to work with those razor sharp blades.

 



So, what is this US Army Lieutenant in the Philippine Constabulary armed with?  (We all know you what it is, Col Drydock!)

Hey, that holster and belt isn't regulation!

[Drydock]

Big, heavy servicable thing I'd say . . . Probably new . . .  

You sure he's army?  That looks like an eagle/globe/anchor on his hat.

[Leo Tanner]

Marine Corps would explain the dour look on his face.

[Drydock]

On the line in the Phillipines

[Charles Isaac]

Oh yeah, this guy is Philippine Constabulary, wearing their trademark non standard leather and armed with what the Constabulary considered he best jungle fighting pistol.

If you were getting sent to the Philippines in the early 1900s and you were in the Philippine Constabulary, you got issued one of these. If regular Army and you could scrounge enough money for the new technology, you bought a New Service or one of these, otherwise, you bought an old SAA or-settled for the issue .38.

Well, it's former US Army Issue, but they get no love today. So, what is it? C'mon! Don't you people like silly question and answer quizzes? 

[Texas Lawdog]

I was lucky enough to buy one of those Constabluary revolvers in 38 long colt. It's a honey.

[Drydock]

Charles, I'd just about bet thats a New Service in that holster.  The reflection off the frame next to the hammer seems to have the longer sweep of the NS, with no divot for the loading gate.  Same with the gentle hump at the top of the grip.  The hammer spur seems too low as well.  IMHO . . . . 

[Drydock]

At the end of this video is a nice shot of a squad doing a rapid fire demonstration with Trapdoor rifles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHicAr1-uZs&feature=related

[pony express]

My first thought was also the 1878, but when I compared it to some pictures, the hump on the grip looks wrong. Shape of the frame beside the hammer wrong too, Drydock could be right, maybe a New Service? On the other hand, it DOES look like a bird's head shape grip, unless it's just the camera angle and shadows that make it look that way.

[Charles Isaac]

My first thought was also the 1878, but when I compared it to some pictures, the hump on the grip looks wrong. Shape of the frame beside the hammer wrong too, Drydock could be right, maybe a New Service? On the other hand, it DOES look like a bird's head shape grip, unless it's just the camera angle and shadows that make it look that way.

This picture has always been controversial and I have seen all the points you and Col Drydock speak of!

There is no  hump in the middle of the slope from the rear sight notch to the top of the grip at the backstrap, but there is the shadow of what may be the cartridge guide that is milled into the right side of the frame that leads to the load gate on a 78 or 02.

The hump at the top of the back of the gripframe is small like a New Service, but the back of the grip looks very rounded like a 78 or 02.

The hammer spur seems too low, but, there seems to be a lot of distance to the top of the gripframe.

The gripframe looks too long, but appears to be a birdshead/round butt

Everything that points to it maybe being one model has a counterpoint, so I have to say that I can't really say for sure whether it is a New Service or an M1902.

One reason it is so hard to tell whether it is a New Service or an M1902 is that photos were frequently touched up with whatever the artists conception happened to be-kind of an archaic form of photoshop. I can not say what it is with absolute certainty The two Colt collectors I know of that own both New Services and M1902s say it is an M1902-but even that doesn't say for sure what was in that man's holster 100 years ago. One thing people agree on is that it is a big Colt double action revolver!

[Delmonico]

I'm at work right no, but I've got some decent photo programs at home that may allow us to get a better look at it, although they might be a bit funny colored, like these two:





And the original:



Not a late 1860's picture like Wison says in The Peacekeepers.

[Grapeshot]

Makes ya wonder what happened to those old 3" ordnance rifles (last produced in 1865!)

A lot of the 3 inch rifles were bored out and re-rifled to 3.2 inch, and the rear of the barrels were cut off and a krupp style breech block installed.  They were also re-mounted in a steel carraige to better stand up to the newer powder being used as a propellant in the brass self contained cartridges.

[Leo Tanner]

Trying to figure out the vintage on this shot.  I'm sure you all can figger it out.

[Drydock]

Krags, 1895 forage caps, 5 button blouses with roll collar, The Krags appear to have the 1898/1902 ramp style sight.  Those stick out more than the flatter 1896 or 1901 ladder sights.  I'd say between 1899 and 1903

[Leo Tanner]

Thank you Sir!  I had nothing but the picture it's self to go on.

[Texas Lawdog]

Leo, These folks that post on this thread know their stuff on these military uniforms of the last 150 years or so.

[Niederlander]

I like to search out the original books. Bought a nice "coffee table" book about the Spanish American War. Printed in 1898 so there is no doubt as to the origin of the hundreds of huge photos. Brought it with me to the '09 Muster and a few people looked at it. $20 shipped on Ebay.

This photo was described as being a Sergeant in the Rough Riders. The holster is much like the right hand draw M1889 Naval Services holster. It is set up like a drop style Army holster, but at a straighter angle for right hand draw from the right side.  It's either a"field" modification of an '89 or a purpose built private purchase holster.

Definitely not regulation. Always glad to see people thinking outside the box


Hello!
     As I was looking at this picture it occurred to me the holster might be suspended from one of the brass wire holster hangers.

[Texas Lawdog]

I think that was 20 dollars well spent, Ned.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Just saved this period photo, and a couple of cropped details, from an eBay listing -