Brass-frame Life Expectancy

kflach · October 28, 2009, 09:30:21 AM

This is starting to concern me. I have a brass framed '58 Remmie NMA. It's new - apparently made after Pietta upgraded their factory quality control. I know the brass will eventually distort. However, I've also read people claiming they knew of brass frames that worked fine after "thousands" of rounds. I plan on eventually getting a steel framed Remmie, but I can't afford one today. I'm saving up for a rifle (I've been having to borrow one just to shoot Working Class in an NCOWS posse). I'd like to be able to get a rifle first and then replace my brass-framed Remmie with a steel-framed one later next year. However, every time I read a post about brass frames I get a bit more concerned.

Question 1).
I've seen at least one person whom I respect telling other people who use brass to shoot with only 15 grains of black powder. My manual specifically says to use 22 - 30 grains. Other than a ball getting stuck in my barrel, what's the worst thing that can happen if I shoot under 22 grains? I have no problem going to the range and testing lower loads of BP and I have a dowel that I can use to remove stuck balls but what else should I be prepared for?

Question 2).
I read phrases like the brass will "eventually" or "sooner or later" distort. I'm currently shooting 25.5 grains of Holy Black per round, and I've been shooting 30-35 rounds once a week. Right now the gun has had about 480 rounds through it. What does "eventually" mean? Can I expect the frame to die within the next 6 months? A year? Or does "eventually" mean it'll only last 5 years instead of a lifetime?

Capt. JEB Forrest · October 28, 2009, 10:14:12 AM

In my opinion, the "majic "brass frame stretching is overstated.

At one time I shot every weekend for a couple years, with brass frames.

I think with your current load and frequency of use you should worry....

in 10-12 years!!!!!

Still using brass frames, as a matter of fact.

Jed Cooper · October 28, 2009, 10:22:19 AM

Kevin, I shoot 32 grains out of open tops (60 army) all the time with no ill effects. I would think your beefy brass frame would be stronger than a steel open top. Not being an expert on metal strength, I hope one of our more experienced brains chime in here. If not I don't think your gonna see a failure with what you have been shooting. Jed

Pettifogger · October 28, 2009, 10:30:10 AM

The Remington brass frames and the Colt brass frames are two entirely different animals. With a repeated diet of heavy loads the arbors in the Colts can start pulling out of the brass frame and give excess barrel/cylinder gap. The Remmie has a substantial top strap and is far stronger. It will hold up just fine.

kflach · October 28, 2009, 11:18:52 AM

Thanks all! I probably worry too much, but the fact is I really enjoy my Remmie and would much rather be too careful than not careful enough. I haven't had this much fun in a loooong time!

Mogorilla · October 28, 2009, 12:00:48 PM

I'll throw my $0.02 in here. I have a brass frame remmington and a steel frame. i have had the brass one for 7 years and conservatively estimate it has had 1500 round minimum through it. I shoot .454 ball on top of 25 grains of bp. This is the buffalo model (12" barrel) and I shoot it with a shoulder stock. At 50 yards, i still get 2" groups. As crisp as the day it came out of the box. I converted the steel frame. Both are fabulous.

Paladin UK · October 28, 2009, 03:08:33 PM

Fer kflach .........

Had my Spiller `n` Burr for YEARS !!! I cant even start to remember how many rds I`ve put through that little gem BUT I can also tell you theres is No I repeat NO sign of the dredded frame stretching!!

Stick with the correct loading and it will see you out!!

Paladin (What lurvs his little S&B) UK

Montana Slim · October 28, 2009, 06:49:02 PM

Still have my 1st C&B pistol, its a "Hawes" brass-frame Colt in .44.
I must have been about 13 or 14 when I bought it & I've shot the heck outta that gun....never a problem other than worn out the timing a few times. I learned how-to replace/fit parts on that gun. Oh, I still have it, too..... it works ok, but I may rebuilt it when I get caught up on my other projects.

IMO, Ideal brass framed guns are .36 Colt copies and Spiller & Burr as these were used by the Confederacy & are Period Correct ta-boot.

Regards,
Slim

madcratebuilder · October 30, 2009, 06:31:11 AM

I have both top strap and open top brass frame revolvers. I limit my loads to half the caliber size, ie .36 getting not more than 18grs and a .44 not more than 22grs. My Spiller & Burr has twenty years worth of shooting and has a very, very minor indentation on the recoil shield. The cylinder end play is still very tight.

On two of the open tops I had a lot of end play or cylinder gap when new. I tightened that up to .006 and they have been fine. I was concerned about the brass frame 51 Navy in .44 would loosen up, but it is still tight. On my open tops I make sure the arbor fit is correct, arbor bottoms in the barrel lug hole.

I think the key is not putting to much powder in them and addressing excessive cylinder end play.

WV Scrounger · October 30, 2009, 09:03:54 AM

My Griswold & Gunnison circa 1973 has been shooting 20 grains since I brought it home whne I was 18 yr old,,,,its still going strong with no wobble or looseness in the arbor after all these years and I am now 54. The key is as Mr Mad Crate Builder said...
Stay away from the Max Loads....and you'll be fine fer many many years.

Driftwood Johnson · October 31, 2009, 09:57:47 AM

Howdy

My brass framed 44 cal Navy has a sprung frame. I bought it brand spanky new at the Navy Arms showroom in 1968. After years of shooting 40 grain loads, and at least one chain fire, the frame is sprung badly enough that the barrel points up when the wedge is fastened in place. Yes, the arbor has probably been pulled forward.

However, as Pettifogger said, a Remmie has a top strap and is inherently more rigid than a Colt style frame where the barrel is fastened to the arbor by a wedge. There is nothing other than the friction of the arbor in the frame holding everything together.

If I wuz you, I would keep my loads moderate, not much more than 20 grains, and your Remmie will probably last a long time.

As far as metal strength is concerned, steel has a much higher tensile strength than brass.

And frame stretching, or battering can be real with a brass frame. Mike Venturino documented a brass framed Henry in his book Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West that was ruined by just a few rounds of high powered ammo.

Buffalow Red · October 31, 2009, 07:08:05 PM

well i got a 12" buffalow pettia brass frame 44 cal i got it used from an employee around 1992 i only shot 35 grains with .451 balls through it for first 15 years verry accurate cut back to 30 grains for first year of cowboy action then couple years & now 24 grains (not as accurate as higher loads but good enough )
the cly to barrel gap looks to be 30-40 thousands now were my other C&B's are more like 5-10 thousands
its showing wear but still good to go i have replaced the cly pin 4 or 5 times as it gets cut by the front of cly
if you or if i would have stayed at 24 grains all thouse years it would have a lot less wear now
first year i shot it around 50 times a mounth then 15 years it only got shot in the fall probly 100-200 rounds each fall
as every one wanted to try it now i hardly ever shot it but come deer season ill be packing it with 30 grains again

just shoot it dont worry keep loads under 24 grains
o yea i got this one used

madcratebuilder · November 01, 2009, 07:28:29 AM

Quote from: Buffalow Red on October 31, 2009, 07:08:05 PM
well i got a 12" buffalow pettia brass frame 44 cal i got it used from an employee around 1992 i only shot 35 grains with .451 balls through it for first 15 years verry accurate cut back to 30 grains for first year of cowboy action then couple years & now 24 grains (not as accurate as higher loads but good enough )
the cly to barrel gap looks to be 30-40 thousands now were my other C&B's are more like 5-10 thousands
its showing wear but still good to go i have replaced the cly pin 4 or 5 times as it gets cut by the front of cly
if you or if i would have stayed at 24 grains all thouse years it would have a lot less wear now
first year i shot it around 50 times a mounth then 15 years it only got shot in the fall probly 100-200 rounds each fall
as every one wanted to try it now i hardly ever shot it but come deer season ill be packing it with 30 grains again

just shoot it dont worry keep loads under 24 grains
o yea i got this one used

That's good to know Red. I have a Pietta buffalo, nickle plated brass frame. Nice to know I can load it up with out serious damage from just a few rounds.