How many Grains in a CC ?

[john boy]

I've Got a Headache!

Ladies and Gentlemen ... In this Corner of the Ring We Have the Dipper.  And in the Opposite Corner We Have the Scale

Will the Continuing Fight of Measuring Black Powder Ever End? 

[wildman1]

I've Got a Headache!

Ladies and Gentlemen ... In this Corner of the Ring We Have the Dipper.  And in the Opposite Corner We Have the Scale

Will the Continuing Fight of Measuring Black Powder Ever End? 

Gotta luv it, seems ta bring out the BEST (and the rest) in folks.  WM

[Mako]

Well I can see that there is still a world of disagreement here.  After giving it considerable thought I have a solution.  We all need to have a uniform system of measurement and I have determined that system is the Imperial Pint.  The keeper of the standard shall be our pard in the U.K., Paladin; because we know he will jealously guard this standard and keep everyone honest.

These are the units for what we are now calling the Paladin Pub Units or P.P.U.s

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Odds%20and%20Ends/PPU.jpg

And this is the conversion table:

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Odds%20and%20Ends/Conversion.jpg

I really like these new units, because make no mistake about it, they are units of volume.  If you don't believe me then try to tell Paladin that you are going to pull his pint by weight...After you get off of the floor you will be a believer.

I also like it because everything is "more powerful" in these units.  Consider this...I have to load 30 grains of BP in my '60s to get a martial load with a 147gr ball.  With P.P.U.s I only have to load 27.3798 Drabs to get the same load!

So get with the programs folks!  It's all about Pints, Gulps, Sips, Dribs and Drabs now.

~Mako

[rickk]

I think I can live with this, but be aware that there is a government (UK) sanctioned effort to get rid of the imperial pint.

In fact, from what I gather is is illegal to measure anything but beer in UK in imperial pints and the politicians are currently screwing with that as well.

Paladin, are my facts correct on this, or am I all covered in beer?

Rick


PS... 1 Imperial pint isn't exactly 20 ounces. It is closer to 19.2

[Mako]

I think I can live with this, but be aware that there is a government (UK) sanctioned effort to get rid of the imperial pint.

In fact, from what I gather is is illegal to measure anything but beer in UK in imperial pints and the politicians are currently screwing with that as well.

Paladin, are my facts correct on this, or am I all covered in beer?
Rick

PS... 1 Imperial pint isn't exactly 20 ounces. It is closer to 19.2

1. The P.P.U. organization really doesn't care what the government in the UK or any other government does.  The P.P.U. is now the standard of discerning holy black shooters anywhere and everywhere.

2. The claim that it is illegal to measure anything other than beer by Imperial Pints is scurrilous.  What basis do you have to offer as support for this claim?

3. There has been no mention anywhere in the P.P.U. standard or in any of my posts about ounces in an Imperial Pint.  Bringing up ounces could be construed by some to be perpetuating the feuding that has become the hallmark of the "grain" measure.

Since you may not have read carefully I shall once again post the P.P.U. standards.


http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Odds%20and%20Ends/PPU.jpg

And as I said before there are 568 ml in an Imperial Pint.

~Mako

[rickk]

Mako,

My understanding about the legality of measuring anything other than beer in Imperial Pints applies only in the UK, and I assume it only applies to measurements involving commerce. I assume that what one does in his own home is still unregulated, even in the UK.  Paladin would be able to offer more insight I am sure. My source would be "Zymurgy" magazine, of which I have subscribed for 20 or so years.  (Yes, I do have a 10 faucet Kegerator in my back yard).

Basically, as I understand it, the UK went metric but was unable to convince the beer drinkers to care about metric so they did what the US aircraft industry did.... they said "no" and kept making jet engines... errr... drinking beer.  I guess that BP shooters in UK could joint the movement too.

[Angel_Eyes]

Grains are used for making whiskey!

CC's are used for measuring engine sizes (UK) which is wrong, 'cos cubes have corners and cylinders are round.

Beer is delivered in barrels or casks or bottles and the only measure is how much you can drink before you run out of money.

And most any woman has got the measure of any man!

Q.E.D

Oh,,,,I use a flask and spout, the length of which depends on how much smoke I want!

[rickk]

Beer is delivered in barrels or casks or bottles and the only measure is how much you can drink before you run out of money.

And lets not forget about the Firkin.

[wildman1]

About time! This thread has finally dispensed with the frivilous and gotten down to serious discussion about serious matters, seriously.  WM

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

AND; We can involve religion!

Bible Dictionary
Firkin definition

Used only in John 2:6; the Attic amphora, equivalent to the Hebrew bath (q.v.), a measure for liquids containing about 8 7/8 gallons.

Most dictionaries say it is 1/4 of a barrel, or about 9 gallons

[rickk]

talking about a firkin is kinda like asking how many grains of BP fits in a 1.0 CC scoop.

(I'm a'gunna let this one ride a while)

Rick

[Mako]

talking about a firkin is kinda like asking how many grains of BP fits in a 1.0 CC scoop.

(I'm a'gunna let this one ride a while)

Rick

Oh, that's easy.

15.43 grains of BP fit n a 1.0cc scoop... (every time)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

OK, no more firkins!  How about Forty Rod?

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/length

Hit "conversion home page" and look around to convert almost anything, anyway, to something else you probbly never heerd of B4

[rickk]

40 rod is 40 rod, no matter where or when ya go. Part of my farm's deed is in rods and chains and links and my back 40 hasn't moved in hundreds of years.

A firkin on the other hand...


Roger on the 15.43 grains Mako.

[sail32]

Just to be picky and the reference is'

" National Standard of Canada', " Canadian Metric Practice Guide ", Canadian Standards Association " CAN3-Z234.1-76. True it's an old one.

1 pint (Can)          = 0.568 261 cubic decimeters
1 pint (UK/Imp)     = 0.586 262 cubic decimeters
1 pint (US Dry )    = 0.550 610 cubic  decimeters
1 pint (US Liquid) = 0.473 176 cubic decimeters

Also;

1 fluid drachm (UK)   = 3.551 634  cubic decimeters
1 fluid dram (Cdn)     = 3.551 633 cubic decimeters
1 fluid dram (US)       = 3.696 691 cubic decimeters

For mass; where 1 kilogram (kg) = 1,000 grams (g)

1 drachm (apothecary)      = 3.887 935 g
1 dram (apothecary, US)  = 3.887 935 g
1 dram (avoirdupois)         = 1.771 845 g

1 grain                            = 64.798 91 mg (there is no grain of volume )    

And for the record a pound of feathers is heaver than a pound of gold. Even if both are put on a balance scale.

Australia uses Imperial measure, but Canada does not.

Sorry, but MAKO' scale is wrong.
Mixing units of volume, mass, and distance, does not work.

I am unfamiliar with P.P.U.s, but trade units, and individual country units, are why the world went to the ISO Metric System.

So I'll see his PPU's, and up him, an acre/foot ( a dam measurement), a herring barrel and a coal tub of 45.359 237 kg ( old Newfoundland units )   

Consider the cost of Lee's Powder Measure Kit at $10.99, the extra cost to acquire a Lee Perfect Powder Measure at $29.98 is worth it. The produce has great accuracy.
Electric scales and tricklers, really are cheep.

My apologizes for belaboring a point

[Mako]

Oh Sail32...
You are too funny!  Be careful though, many people will think you are being serious and may reconsider your credibility.
But, even if you are being serious I can excuse your post since you are resorting to the Canadian Standards as your basis.

You need to be using a real standard like the United States Customary Units.  I would even be willing to accept the Imperial System from the Weight and Measurement Act of 1824, or the I.S.U. system.

Now I need to qualify this statement because many of our Canadian brethren have their minds right.  I mean, really now...some Canadians can't even settle on a common national language and are even more schizophrenic than Americans when it comes to the metric system because they  want to be "European"," or at least call themselves part of the Common Wealth when it comes to weight and measures.  

Something to always keep in mind Sail32, just because an obscure body like the Standards Council of Canada , or should I say the Le Conseil canadien des normes (too funny) doesn't reference the volume to weight relationships of units such as ounces and grains doesn't mean you can stand on your statement with your arms folded.  It's funny to watch their machinations as they keep sliding the conversion date out.  We were talking about it the other day because the "new" transition date is now in 2013 (any bets?)  It affects our labeling and validation, which is going to cost me a lot of money.

In the Customery Units system, or any real system for that matter there is a direct relationship for setting the standards universally that directly links Volume measurements to Mass.  Even the "worshipped" metric standard has made changes over the years and have had to resort to a universally accepted standard to set units for the meter.  Originally it was 1/10,000,000 the distance from the equator to the theoretical North Pole.  But that is not a constant.  So now it is 1,650,763.73 times the emission line of krypton 86 as radiates in vacuum.  Simple huh?

Now it gets interesting... How do you get weight in the metric system (actually in the "English" system as well)?  Uh oh... It appears it is a unit of volume (hmmmm water again)...

But that can't be so because you have told us that let me see, how did you say it?  And I quote " Sorry, but MAKO' scale is wrong. Mixing units of volume, mass, and distance, does not work."  

I'd give you the phone number of the International Committee for Weights and Measures, but I don't seem to have it on me right now.  They need to be warned immediately because they are currently in the process of trying to tie the weight standard to the Planck Constant which "horror of horrors" is even worse than what you wrote above.  They are fact trying to use the constant which is basically the proportional constant between the energy of a photon and its' frequency.

Now you might be saying, "huhhhhhhhh??"  I mean how can you do that?  I mean that is a unit of length!!!!!!!!!!!  It gets even worse!!! They are proposing using circuit resistance to measure it!!  I mean that is voodoo and witchcraft and electrical stuff...

I would propose that you and the other Canadians who will be confused by this ( or should I say, "Canadiens qui sera troublé par cela"?) cut your losses now and convert to the P.P.U. stystem immediately!  

The P.P.U. system has a standard that will not change as long a Paladin draws breath.

Regards,
Mako
(Keeper of the P.P.U. this side of the Atlantic)

[rickk]

I will drink an Imperial Pint of MaiBock to that as soon as I get home.

[Cuts Crooked]

All of which fails to deal with the most important question........"how many pints are there in a pub?"

[Mako]

All of which fails to deal with the most important question........"how many pints are there in a pub?"

Oh, no...it's turned back into a theological discussion again.  "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"  "How many pints in a Pub?" 

Oh, the humanity!!!!  Will it ever cease???

[Paladin UK]

Puk says...........


All together now..........

Show me the way to go home
I'm tired and I want to go to bed
I had a little drink about an hour ago
And it went right to my head
Where ever I may roam
On land or sea or foam
You will always hear me singing this song
Show me the way to go home
Paladin (What`s  still Imperial  ) UK