Old/new Pietta '58

Slowhand Bob · October 11, 2009, 02:48:34 PM

I have searched, without luck, this and another forum for past info that I know I saw somewhere concerning the Pietta. I currently have three pairs of the Pietta .44 '58s and the oldest pair were modified to take the ported Kirst Converters. Of the two pair remaining, for c&b use only, the 8" barreled older pair fits all of my old model cylinders (12) with the narrow bolt/cut but the newest pair, 5 1/2" barrels, has the wider bolt/cuts. What experience do you guys have with making the old cylinder work with the new bolt? My thought is that trying to just swap bolts might cause a new set of problems due to the thicker frame cut. I wish Pietta would have dressed the new bolts with a lead in angle to work with both cylinders. What ever I come up with will probably require a pair of new bolts to work on, where does one find these?

Major 2 · October 11, 2009, 03:54:02 PM

Try http://www.vtigunparts.com/

Montana Slim · October 13, 2009, 09:30:57 PM

I've used Remmington bolts from Dixie Gun Works as replacements with great success.

Regards,
Slim

Flint · October 13, 2009, 10:18:19 PM

The older cylinders had a.136 wide cut, the newer ones have a .156 cut. The older cylinders can be recut with a 5/32 X 7/8 Woodruff Key cutter, that is a size 507. You need an index head and a mill to do it. Care must be taken to be sure the recut notches are correctly located to align the chambers to the bore.

The bolt is .156 wide, in both the new and the old, the hole in the frame is the same size for both, the wide bolt will fit either frame. The difference is the older bolt head was tapered to fit into the narrower notch, and I believe the tolerances were large enough before Pietta changed to CNC machining, they needed that to tune the chamber location to the barrel.

I fitted spare cylinders for a pard's guns, and had to convert his original cylinders and replace the bolts.

Another difference I found between the new and old was the nipple pockets are a different depth by about .020 inch, so had to set the hammer up to pop a cap on the deepest cylinders, so there is a bit of space between the hammer shoulder and the frame when the hammer is down on the shallower nipples. Speaking of that, the Piettas have a hammer face a bit too long and at a different angle than the nipples, so the hammer strikes the top of the cone harder than the bottom, leading to damaged nipples, and if you have expensive Treso or Ampco nipples installed, that is not acceptable.

check your hammer to frame fit with the hammer down. if there is space between the hammer shoulders and the frame the hammer is hitting the nipple too hard. Properly set up, the hammer nose should not quite touch the nipple cone face with the hammer against the frame (as it will be if the cylinder is removed) but the thickness of a cap will allow the gun to fire. That is the way the Ruger OLd Army is set up, making it safe to dry fire.

Slowhand Bob · October 16, 2009, 05:32:16 PM

While looking at my Kirst conversion cylinders I noticed that they even have the wider bolt cut, even though they were made before the new Pietta changes. This prompted me to dig out my old Pietta six shot 45acp cylinders and sure nuff they have the wide cut also and these are pretty old stuff. Am I to understand that just replacing the newer guns bolts with the older versions will not work on my newer guns to allow use of both style c&b cylinders? This leaves me wondering why the old bolt worked with the wider cut in the Kirst cylinders? My my my, I'm getting a headache, no wonder I could never have been a gunsmith!

Flint · October 16, 2009, 08:00:34 PM

The old bolt will work with the new cylinders, BUT..... The cylinder slot will be .020 wider than the bolt, so there will be excessive sideplay in the cylinder, and if cocking fast, will probably throw the chamber to the right of the bore, and the bullet will strike the right side of the forcing cone and drive the cylinder back to center. The revolver would be much happier if the chambers were to align with the bore when ready to fire.

A better solution is to replace the old bolts with new ones (they have to be fitted, a bit, not just a drop-in). Then when it's convenient and/or affordable, get the old cap & ball cylinders recut for the wider bolt head.

madcratebuilder · October 30, 2009, 07:00:02 AM

Quote from: Flint on October 13, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
Another difference I found between the new and old was the nipple pockets are a different depth by about .020 inch, so had to set the hammer up to pop a cap on the deepest cylinders, so there is a bit of space between the hammer shoulder and the frame when the hammer is down on the shallower nipples. Speaking of that, the Piettas have a hammer face a bit too long and at a different angle than the nipples, so the hammer strikes the top of the cone harder than the bottom, leading to damaged nipples, and if you have expensive Treso or Ampco nipples installed, that is not acceptable.

Flint how are you adjusting the hammer? Have you ever cut the face of the hammer to have it fit square to the nipples? I'm starting to see some peening on the top of the nipples on both of my Piettas and need to address that.

Raider2000 · November 01, 2009, 08:26:52 PM

Quote from: madcratebuilder on October 30, 2009, 07:00:02 AM
Flint how are you adjusting the hammer? Have you ever cut the face of the hammer to have it fit square to the nipples? I'm starting to see some peening on the top of the nipples on both of my Piettas and need to address that.

I have, I take it slow with a fine small mill file & use a marker on the cone to show me where I need a little extra taken off at.
Once the marking is uniform on the face of the hammer, I'll take Casenit & reharden the hammer face then Aneal it to get it right for use.

It takes time to do it right but well worth it in the end.

Flint · November 02, 2009, 08:16:20 PM

Raider is correct. The hammer nose on a blued Pietta may or may not be harder than a file, the Stainless is not. If too hard, you may either have to anneal the hammer nose or use a sanding drum or grider.

All the Piettas I've deen have too long a hammer nose and are set at the wrong angle, not matching the face of the nipples. Luckily, being too long allows you to alter the angle without creating a gap that would not fire a cap.

I found at least two different nipple well depths on Pietta cylinders, so if you have spares, set your hammer nose to reach the deepest nipple, and put up with too hard a hit on the shallower/higher nipple.