Airspace dangerous in B.P. Ctgs.? Not according to this information.

Angel_Eyes · January 01, 2010, 02:28:48 PM

Not wishing to put a damper on the discussion, but, isn't this getting repetitive?

I seem to see this same subject every other month.

Surely we can agree that if the propellant is nitro, go by the makers loading list.

If it's B/P then the case is best filled, whether you use all B/P, or a filler of some type.

You could fill the whole forum with everybody's favorite load! ( Personally I prefer...........)

AE ( The headache has nearly gone now, thank you.)

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 01, 2010, 03:14:28 PM

AE; That was the point I was trying to make. Thank you for putting it so sucinctly.

Marshal Deadwood · January 01, 2010, 03:38:56 PM

FIrst time I'd asked,,and I wouldnt have if I didn't NEED to know.

I appreicate the answers guys.

MD * just bought corn meal today to save wads

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 01, 2010, 04:29:27 PM

MD; No offence meant. Just bringing up an old and lengthy thread on the same topic. AAMOF, it is in greater depth than most threads due to the experience and training of some of the participants. TOR has some great technical contributors.

When you try to sit on the fence you might get a picket up a sensitive spot, but AE is also correct from a practical point of view. Load to get some degree of compression, however slight, and you will have reliable ammo that you can recreate each time.

Marshal Deadwood · January 01, 2010, 05:29:40 PM

Sir Charles, I have cornmeal in possession !

Would say,,,1/8 inch compression ,,compressing the bp AND the cornmeal,,be enough ?

Again, I appologize if I am covering old ground to everyone,,but,,,I'd rather ask,,,and even go to extremes like I have been,,than ruin a good gun. I knew one was suppose to compress and firm bp loads,,,I was just not sure of the why,,,and as far as fillers, I wasn't sure what made a great filler.

I think I have a handle on this now,,,thanks again, eveyone,,,,and,,,,I took no offense at AE's comment,,just explaining that I really did need to know.

MD

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 01, 2010, 06:30:56 PM

Fillers are a topic of some debate as well. I won't start, caused I use C.O.W. That is "Cream of Wheat". Some fillers are not compressible so go easy.

litl rooster · January 02, 2010, 07:03:05 AM

Quote from: Wolfgang on January 01, 2010, 07:27:55 AM
Pard, . . you're going to a whole lot of trouble loading .45 Colt cartridges with all that stuff. If you want to load less powder than fills the case, . . you could top off the powder with enough corn meal to fill the space to the bullet. Other than that it sounds fine to me.

or add a little more powder and call it good.

why do you drop charge it?

Marshal Deadwood · January 02, 2010, 09:02:07 AM

Here's my thinking. To drop tube it,,that settles it very very good,,before I measure to see how much filler,,,or wad depth,,,I need to lightly compress the load. Id hate to fill or wad it,,then the cartridges get vibrated via movement in boxes etc,,and the powder 'drop away' from the bullet anyways....this way I know it will not.

Might be un-necessary,,but it cant hurt.

MD

litl rooster · January 02, 2010, 10:05:11 AM

Quote from: Marshal Deadwood on January 02, 2010, 09:02:07 AM

Might be un-necessary,,but it cant hurt.

MD

Delmonico · January 02, 2010, 10:08:41 AM

Quote from: Marshal Deadwood on January 02, 2010, 09:02:07 AM
Here's my thinking. To drop tube it,,that settles it very very good,,before I measure to see how much filler,,,or wad depth,,,I need to lightly compress the load. Id hate to fill or wad it,,then the cartridges get vibrated via movement in boxes etc,,and the powder 'drop away' from the bullet anyways....this way I know it will not.

Might be un-necessary,,but it cant hurt.

MD

Yep the slight differance it makes might be needed at a 1000 yards with a really good gun with really good sights. for popping large targets up close, I doubt it.

litl rooster · January 02, 2010, 10:10:27 AM

that was my point exactly Del.

if you need filler to reduce recoil, buy a .32

Delmonico · January 02, 2010, 10:29:38 AM

Quote from: litl rooster on January 02, 2010, 10:10:27 AM
that was my point exactly Del.

Been explained many, many times here, but always easier to ask than research back a few pages. I'm sure to catch flak on that one, but I'd think the OP would expect a bit of research out of me if I'd a bought a flinter back when he was into them.

Marshal Deadwood · January 02, 2010, 10:54:22 AM

I had not realized this subject had been hashed around as many times as it obviously has been.

So, sorry to have caused a stress point.

MD

Paladin UK · January 02, 2010, 01:21:29 PM

Pards, I wuz jest wonnerin..........

I've tried to always shoot full case,,,filler,,wads,,,etc to elimate 'air space' in my rounds. But,,I admit I'm curious as to what the hazzard 'might' be if one used lite loads and didnt take up the space with a filler or overpowder wads ?

What is the major concern with 'space' in a bp cartridge ?

Paladin (Whats takin cover right now

) UK

PS....... Happy New Year ta ya`ll

Deadeye Dick · January 02, 2010, 01:30:13 PM

PUK

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,28758.0.html

Deadeye Dick

Delmonico · January 02, 2010, 02:18:08 PM

Will add this then I'm done foolin' with this, but I don't think their is an experienced muzzle-loader in the world who will tell you you can leave an air space between a ball and a charge of black powder. Logic says it would not be safe to do the same with a breech-loader. But then I believe in logic and common sense.

fourfingersofdeath · January 02, 2010, 04:15:12 PM

I am just getting into BP. I intend to shoot it exclusively as soon as I get my casting back on line and can turn my Big Lube boolits out.

Whilst getting prepared, I have canvassed the better shooters of BP at shoots here and interstate. The greater percentage of them load on Dillon presses and don't worry about air space. No one could remember anyone having any sort of trouble with this method. All had been shooting cowboy this way for more than 10 years and all shot off a lot of ammo and attended a lot of shoots to be in the top competitive positions in the sport that they are in. Soooooooooooooooo, I don't think it is as a significant issue as we tend to think, or someone in this group would have had a problem or would have seen someone else have a problem.

Having said that, I'm too old to be fast, and I am a bit of a lair (Aussie for a person who likes to show off

) and am interested in being reasonably authentic, especially when it comes to arms and ammo, so I will run with stout, fill em up type loads, warthogs I think the expression is.

Capt. Montgomery Little · January 02, 2010, 04:25:10 PM

Been shootin' black powder for more than 40 years and have found that the only advantage to corn meal filler is if you use Crisco as a bullet lube....little bitty pieces of cornbread in the meat before roastin'. Cuts out alot of the prep time especially when out in the woods in Winter. Them's my words of wisdom for this New Year so chew on 'em and see what Ya come up with.
God Bless and shoot safer than Ya did last year.

Capt. Montgomery Little CSA

Delmonico · January 02, 2010, 04:34:57 PM

Will add this, I've never heard of a ballisticion from a ballistics lab say air space is OK. There are somethings that don't bite you all the time but can. I trust those guys far more than anyone else.

Roosterman · January 04, 2010, 07:50:22 AM

Well here, let me throw this out there. Breech seated schuetzen rifles leave about 1/16" airspace between the card and bullet base, sometimes even a bit more space. then there is the '63 sharps which is impossible to get the chamber filled with powder due to it's design. Many folks that own the '63 are shooting around 2/3rds capacity with no fillers and report no problems and excellent accuracy.
Just throwing this out there for something to think about.