Richards questions

[shooter93]

I'll see if I can explain this so it makes sense....Do any manufactures make a Richards conversion with the rear sight on the back of the cylinder...not on the barrel and the firing pin not on the hammer. And is the ejector rod made to go in the hole from the old loading lever or "tacked" on the side. I've tried for years to no avail to have my Colt 1860's converted and it looks like it just isn't going to happen that way so I guess I'll have to buy a pair. thanks.

[St. George]

I'd take a good look through McDowell's 'Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers' and even Adler's 'Metallic Cartridge Conversions.

Both will go a long way towards giving you a full explanation of how the percussion revolver was converted.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Black River Smith]

A very direct and unfortunate answer (as far as I am concerned also) to your question is, No.

None of the generally know suppliers offer the True Richards.  You Can get the new Uberti Second model and alter the ring and hammer.  This is the closes possibility and I have thought along those lines.  Thing is the Second model cost ~$500 to start the project.

The other alternative is one of the custom builders listed in Alder book suggested by St. George.  But  since you stated you have tried for years to have one done, I would assume you already have contacted these different men.

[shooter93]

I figured as much and would probably have to modify anything I bought. And yes...I've contacted those people and it's taken YEARS...not just one year to no avail. I'm still wondering about the ejector arrangement as to how it's fastened. I know th Kirst one goes in the old rammer hole but I'm not sure about the Uberti's. No gunshops around here stock them. the 500 a piece doesn't matter to much to me since conversions were 1250.00 each on my guns, they just never got done.

[Mako]

Shooter 93,
If you just call it a "Type 1" Richards conversion most people will know what you are talking about.  The only "mass produced" Type I revolvers I know about were made by Armi San Marco (ASM) and they are still to be found as used guns.    I have a couple, quality is hit or miss.

There are some gunsmiths who have made those conversions, they aren't cheap.  If you convert one from a percussion revolver then you must either line the barrel to make it accept .429 caliber bullets instead of the .45+ bullets you have to use in a true conversion.  The bullets in a true conversion are "heeled" bullets which means the bullet diameter is the same as the case outside wall and the step down at the rear to fit in the case.  Think .22 Rimfire here.  Is you look at a .22 and pull a bullet you will see what I mean.  There are bullets available, but it takes a little bit different loading die set to crimp those bullets.

Bernie Rowels has both the bullets and dies necessary to use heeled bullets.  You have to use an expanding collet die such a modified Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp on the shell at the mouth of the case and behind the shoulder or ogive of the bullet.

http://www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com/

There was also a thread on either this forum or the Darksider's Den about these dies and loading a heeled .44 Colt.  Hoof Hearted and OldElm  posted pictures of their set ups as well as the modified lubricating dies for the heeled bullet.  The lube is outside of the case just like a .22 Rimfire.

This is why most modern modified guns I have seen have the barrels relined to .429 and they use what we now call a ".44 cal" bullet in a .44 Colt Case.  You need to also know the chamber pattern on a regular 1860 is too close together for a .44 Russian/Special rim, it is also too small for the .45 caliber cartridges you see Uberti offering some of their "conversions" in.  They aren't dimensionally accurate but 99.9% of the population wouldn't realize it.  Only the fraction of a percent that are 1860 shooters would notice it.  If you have a pistol converted you will need to use .44 Colt brass or brass with the rim reduced in diameter.  Fortunately .44 Colt brass is readily available!

Now that I've broached the Uberti issue, I will talk about the "Type II" conversions.  Uberti just started making these a few years ago.  The differ from the Type 1 as far as you are concerned in four areas.
•   They have a fixed firing pin instead of the rebounding firing pin in the frame.  Colt switched to this in the Type 2 (II) and stayed with it for all other conversions and cartridge revolvers.
•   The rear sight remains on the hammer instead of the Recoil Shield addition.
•   The Ubertis are scaled up a bit to accept .44 Russian/Spl and .45 caliber brass.
•   The barrels of the Ubertis accept modern style bullets instead of heeled bullets.

I also have a pair of .44 caliber Type II (Uberti calls them "Transition Models") revolvers.  They are pretty well done and in a pinch I could force them into some of my 1860 holsters.  If you get a pair you need to start with holsters made for 1860s, but wet fit or stretch them to accept the Uberti Transition Models.  The holsters are then looser than I personally like them for a pair of unmodified '60s.  

As Black River Smith told you that would be a cheaper place to start if you wanted to have a pair of those modified to Type 1 firing pins and sights.  Did you want Type Is just because they are different, or would Type IIs satisfy you?

Regards,
Mako

[shooter93]

I just liked the type one better is all and it wasn't really a true copy as they would have been lined to 429 and shoot 44 colt...infact I had bought the brass, dies etc. I contacted the gunsmiths as i said and waited years and never got my guns converted so I'm looking for they best way to come up with the closet thing that I wanted. Not really a true replica but close.

[Black River Smith]

Take a look at the pictures from this posting.  The Ejector housing can be done but it takes time and it is not totally like the all solid original.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,11527.0.html

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Here is one I did two years ago and it is for sale...if you are interested email me at bill44@surf-ici.com
I used McDowell's book to make this gun and it is done right, you can ask the experts here that have seen it.

Bill

Richards type 1.

[Fox Creek Kid]

How much, Bill? Remember, I'm a white man that loves Native Americans!! 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Brent......I prefer not to quote a price on line.....if you will send me your email I'll let you know what I want for it. Oh, this one is legal to sell, I built it on a Richards/Masons frame. The other three I have were built on percussion frames and I am keeping them. I am going to re-blue the appropriate parts before I sell it.

Bill

email......bill44@surf-ici.com

[jake1964]

What caliber is it, Bill?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

What caliber is it, Bill?

.44 Colt, same as the original............

Bill

[Pappy Hayes]

Hey Ottawa, what is your email. I tried sending you one to what I had for you put it is not working

[Pappy Hayes]

Never mind, I looked at his reply again and saw Ottawa had supplied his email.