When did the 1851 Navy Colt begin to reach California?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Major 2,

Thank you for the info ... I have saved the screen about the shipments in my 'Documents' , and can begin to search about A.B. Eaton and his office in San Francisco ...

Thanks!

[FriscoCounty]

There were enough 1851 Navies around by the end of 1851 to make your carrying one OK.  By then close to 10,000 had been manufactured. There were also about 14,000 of the baby dragoons, 12,000 of the 1849s, and 9,000 or so of various Walker/Dragoon variants. 

Just realize that Colt pistols were expensive, but if you wanted a 'revolver cylinder' pistol it was the only game in town - his patent was still in force.  Pepperboxes and single shot pistols were cheap by comparison and thus more prevalent.  Also, if you lived in a city, then you were more likely to carry a derringer (or two).  They were small, concealable weapons that could be easily hidden in a vest pocket.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Frisco County;

Thanks ... and I think that Sacramento, being the Gateway to the Gold Fields, would have gotten anything only a little time after San Francisco got it ... but if I run into an excellent deal on a Colt Pocket Pistol, it will definitely go in my sash. And as far as Pepperboxes within my financial capability, well I can only dream... *S*

[Roscoe Coles]

Roscoe Coles,

John Pierpont Morgan uttered the classic phrase about 'if you have to ask, you can't afford one' when queried about how much one of his yachts had cost.

At the risk of being in the same category as the original questioner, how many shekels would I have to set aside before I could be prepared to seriously look for a pepperbox?

Well, the ones at work are in the hands of the boss who does not want to sell them, but a tour of the online sites shows that originals can be had from $600 or so and up, depending on the maker, condition, engraving, etc.  These were extremely popular in their day and lots of people made them.  Some were high quality, some of lesser quality.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Roscoe,

Figuring saving $50/month, that would put me beginning to look for one about October of 2010,,,

LOL

But if the Big Guy wants me to have one, one will come along .... *S*

[tombogan03884]

According to "Guns of the American West" by Gravaglia and Worman, the "1851 Navy" was actually introduced in 1850 (much like car makers call the vehicle they introduce in September by the next year's title). The Colt Belt-Model "Ranger" (later referred to by all as the "Navy" due to the cylinder scene) revolver was in California by the middle of 1851 at latest.  Of course by then there were many thousands of the 5-shot pocket models referred to by collectors as the "1849" model, and some thousands of the big Holster Pattern Colt, aka the Dragoon.  After it's introduction though, the Navy quickly outsold the heavy Dragoons, as the belt model proved much easier on the belts of those who carried it!

Cheers!

Gordon

New member here, I have not read the whole thread but the 1851 .36 Cal. Colt Got the Navy designation because the US Navy purchased .36 Cal pistols, While the Army bought .44's That was the reason for the naval images on the cylinder.
The Navy continued this practice up till WWII , buying .38's while the Army issued .45's

[Steel Horse Bailey]

WWE, I applaud you on your pursuit of authenticity.  It grows on ya, doesn't it?!  I especially applaud your choice of replacing the Ruger Old Armies (FINE guns, just not authentic) with the 1851.  I'm certainly not an expert, but you've picked well.

Keep up the good work and remember ... your 401K isn't NEAR as much fun as what you're doing!    (But necessary.) 


You're getting some great advice from folks who know  what they're talking about: St. George, Dr. Bob, Roscoe Coles, Hangtown Frye and others.  They've forgotten more than most folks know about 19th Century history!

New member here, I have not read the whole thread but the 1851 .36 Cal. Colt Got the Navy designation because the US Navy purchased .36 Cal pistols, While the Army bought .44's That was the reason for the naval images on the cylinder.

I can't say for sure about the "Navy" revolver being called "the Navy" because of the cylinder decoration - it sounds very plausible, but I have read that the reason that Colt started putting the roll-engravings on their revolvers was because even back then they were having trouble with "cheap, Italian copies" so you were guaranteed a Genuine Colt if it had the engraving.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I have been humbled and am very thankful for all the help I have found in here ... and have bragged on the support I have had ....


I think now it is time to go hit the State Library for everything I can find on the Californios ... my knowledge is from 'Two Years Before the 'by Dana and verbal history that is probalby faulty and for sure sketchy.

So any references y'all might have is more than welcome!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

BTW, Concerning the 401K

Mine was (and is ) with AIG ... and and as I watched their value plummet, it occurred to me that, if I were to take the money out of my 401K  and buy guns with it , they probably would valuate better than my 401K.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it

LOL

[Hangtown Frye]

New member here, I have not read the whole thread but the 1851 .36 Cal. Colt Got the Navy designation because the US Navy purchased .36 Cal pistols, While the Army bought .44's That was the reason for the naval images on the cylinder.
The Navy continued this practice up till WWII , buying .38's while the Army issued .45's

Tom;  Well, yes and no.  The Navy did purchase a number of the .36" cal. Paterson "No. 5 Holster Pistols" in 1839 and issued them primarily to the Pacific Squadron, where they actually saw combat use in the conquest of California.  However, the Army also purchased a number of the No. 5 Holster Pistols just prior to the Mexican War and issued them.  The Walker was of course in .44", and you're absolutely right that the Army continued to use that caliber, and in fact just about any time between 1847 and 1875 if you referred to an "Army Colt" it was the .44" variety, be it a Walker, Dragoon or 1860 Army.

However, the "Navy" designation was due to the cylinder scene (which btw the 1860 Army also shares with it), which may be noted has the legend "Engaged May 16, 1843" on it. This referes to the Battle of Campeche, in which the Republic of Texas Navy, using sailing vessels engaged and defeated a much more powerful Mexican Navy which had steam-powered ships, officered by Royal Navy officers on "leave". (BTW, it is the only occasion in which a totally sailing fleet defeated a totally steam fleet, quite a feat of arms.) Since the RoT's Navy had purchased a number of Colt's holster pistols and carbines (and helped Colt stave off bankruptcy for a few years) Colt wished to commemorate this on his new "Ranger" model revolver of 1851.  The pistols which the RoT Navy had purchased are the very same ones which Capt. John Coffee Hays pulled out of storage in Austin to arm his Rangers with, and gave Colt his new lease on life with their exploits. Thus Colt had a double reason to commemorate the Texas angle, and with the Navy scene and the "Ranger" name he was doing this.  Unfortunately, the term "Navy" became attached to it early, and stuck with it forever, thus a Navy Colt it is.

During the War between the States, BTW, the USN bought more Army Colts than Navy's, and the Army bought LOTS of Navy's, so neither service seemed particularly concerned with the ammo situation.  However, after the War, the Army did stabilize on .44/.45, while the Navy stuck with the .36/.38, so you're right there.  Of course both were standardized on .38's from 1892 to 1911, but both had to standardize on the .45 M1911 when it was adopted. That's why you see the few "Property of US Navy" stamped on some of the early Navy issue .45 Auto's.

Anyway, there's the straight dope.  From my research, at least.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Hangtown Frye]

Wad;

Just catching up on this thread after a bit of an absence, and one book I would HIGHLY recommend (and you can usually find it at the Sutter's Fort Trade Store: Say hi to Sparky if you go in there!) is by Captain Randolph Marcy, USA, entitled "The Prairie Traveler".  It was published by the US Army, after Congress decided that there were too many completely bogus "travel books" purporting to give practical advice to the emigrants and in fact only giving them total hearsay and BS.  Marcy, a very experienced frontier officer, was ordered to produce this book and it's an absolute classic.  Although not published until 1858, virtually everything in there is worthwhile and was practiced by the experienced plainsmen in the earlier 1850's and even earlier.  Good advice on wagons, mules vs. oxen, firearms, etc. is in there, and worth knowing if you are planning on portraying someone who came across the prairies and mountains rather than around the Horn or via Panama.

Get it, give it a good read and you'll have a LOT of good background knowledge to begin to base your character's base of experience on.  Just being able to say "Well, this is rough without your "air conditioning", but nothing compared to what we had to go through in the prairies.  Here's what we had to do..." etc.  Good basic knowledge for anyone who came across in a wagon, or with mules packs.

Cheers!

Gordon

[River City John]

Wad;

Just catching up on this thread after a bit of an absence, and one book I would HIGHLY recommend (and you can usually find it at the Sutter's Fort Trade Store: Say hi to Sparky if you go in there!) is by Captain Randolph Marcy, USA, entitled "The Prairie Traveler".  It was published by the US Army, after Congress decided that there were too many completely bogus "travel books" purporting to give practical advice to the emigrants and in fact only giving them total hearsay and BS.  Marcy, a very experienced frontier officer, was ordered to produce this book and it's an absolute classic.  Although not published until 1858, virtually everything in there is worthwhile and was practiced by the experienced plainsmen in the earlier 1850's and even earlier.  Good advice on wagons, mules vs. oxen, firearms, etc. is in there, and worth knowing if you are planning on portraying someone who came across the prairies and mountains rather than around the Horn or via Panama.

Get it, give it a good read and you'll have a LOT of good background knowledge to begin to base your character's base of experience on.  Just being able to say "Well, this is rough without your "air conditioning", but nothing compared to what we had to go through in the prairies.  Here's what we had to do..." etc.  Good basic knowledge for anyone who came across in a wagon, or with mules packs.

Cheers!

Gordon

It is available online, too.

http://www.kancoll.org/books/marcy/index.html

RCJ

[WaddWatsonEllis]

For those who expressed kind interest, here is my position siwh about two months to go.

Got the Pietta 1851 Colt and Slim Jim Holster, waiting ona gunbelt that Chuck Burrows was kind enough to resize for me Then the Colt,holster and Crazy Crow Belduque will go onto the belt.

The Vaquero Jacket has arrived and is at Sacramento Dry Goods ... they also are altering the Calaveras for me, and I am to pick up both Friday ... Yea!

I am on Mr. Burrow's 'dance card' for a pair of Botas de Alas  ( http://www.wrtcleather.com/Botas/index-gallery.html ) early in the New Year, as well as a large blade Belduque to tuck into the Botas Californo style.

I stopped by Sutter's Fort and picked up a book called "the Decline of the Californios" by Leonard Pitt which turns out to be a good resource book for the . It states that the Bancroft Library at the University of California Berkely is a treasure trove of oral histories of the era .... so I see a pilgrimage to Berkely in my future.

Still have not made it to the Sacramento Library due to logistics of getting there and life in general.... but it is on the list for November....