What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Grogan,

First, I agree wholeheartedly about the Berdan/Colt Rifle.

I have lived until my 60th birthday with all ten fingers, and intend to be buried with them in the same casket .. and connected to my hand!

That being said, the discussion was concerning 1851 in California .... and although the first Sharps were made in 1850 using paper cartridges, I doubt that there were any in California ... even with the few US Army troops there .... and much less with a Californio.

The Californios, from what I have read, disdained firearms, and were much more likely to have a sabre on their saddle rig then a scabbard and rifle. I am taking a liberty in a way to be wearing an 1851 Colt .... but I will have two Belduques on me ... a small 5 1/2" blade one at my waist for common work, and a 8 1/2" ish one tucked into my right Botas (legging). Historically knives were the weapons of choice, and a pistol would probably only be used against a gringo if the gringo was "heeled"...

My character that I am looking for would have ridden in from a ranchero, and left his horse and rig at the local livery... so any horse carried weapons will not be considerered ... just anything he might be carrying about town ...

[Grogan]

Grogan,

First, I agree wholeheartedly about the Berdan/Colt Rifle.

I have lived until my 60th birthday with all ten fingers, and intend to be buried with them in the same casket .. and connected to my hand!

That being said, the discussion was concerning 1851 in California .... and although the first Sharps were made in 1850 using paper cartridges, I doubt that there were any in California ... even with the few US Army troops there .... and much less with a Californio.

The Californios, from what I have read, disdained firearms, and were much more likely to have a sabre on their saddle rig then a scabbard and rifle. I am taking a liberty in a way to be wearing an 1851 Colt .... but I will have two Belduques on me ... a small 5 1/2" blade one at my waist for common work, and a 8 1/2" ish one tucked into my right Botas (legging). Historically knives were the weapons of choice, and a pistol would probably only be used against a gringo if the gringo was "heeled"...

My character that I am looking for would have ridden in from a ranchero, and left his horse and rig at the local livery... so any horse carried weapons will not be considerered ... just anything he might be carrying about town ...

Ellis,

I think there's NO Question that back then Knives were more reliable than Percussion firearms.

Cap 'n Ball Revolver's only advantage was range (and maybe if one chamber didn't fire you could always recock and try again?)

Of course if you read the Ordnance Dept.'s reports from back then (mid-1840s) you do come to appreciate what a revolutionary weapon Colt's (Walker) Revolvers were.

Gee, prior to the advent of these, mounted troops (Dragoons) were only equipped with Single Shot Smoothbore Muskets and their Saber.  Possibly they might have also carried a big Smoothbore Single Shot Pistol.

But their pistol's accuracy was very poor at anything but fairly close range, and again it was only ONE shot!

Imagine suddenly being issued a PAIR of Colt's Walker Revolvers?!!

Now you have your Saber, plus 12 shots, as powerful and (probably) more accurate than your Musket!

Oh, and the original tests include submerging the loaded revolver in a bucket of water for 1 hour and taking it out and it still fires all 6 shots!

(Obviously their revolvers, cylinders, caps & cones WEREN'T made in Italy?!!  )

Of course I don't know what the Californios were doing around Sutter's Fort back then, but I'm guessing that once the Anglos started showing up there were PLENTY of Colt's (mainly 1849 Pocket Pistols) around.

My 2 Cents

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Grogan,

Again, I agree with all the information you have written of ... especially of the Yanquis. But the Californios attempted to trace their lineage back to Spain, and in their taste of personal weaponry it looks like they did the same ... they did not bother to learn English, and probably only carried firearms in self defense because they might have to deal with Yanqui.

But for problems among themselves, both the Belduque and sword lasted long into the 19th century. For instance, when the Mexicans routed our troops at the battle of Los Angeles, it was the Californio Lancers (horse drawn calvalry armed with Lances as primary weapons) that prevailed until US reinforcements were brought from New Mexico.

But the two cultures were mixing. Yanqui men married into Old Californio families and the cultures began to collide and collude. The persona I wish to portray is a person born or married into Mexican Citizenship and present for the three decades of often violent change from agrarian near feudal bucolic life to the hustle and bustle of new cities and new ideas ... someone able to see the worst and best of either the Californio or Yanqui outlooks ...

As such, in 1852 he would be in his fities or sixties, as am I.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The same photograph is on page 66 of PACKING IRON.  The caption states "Well armed for an overland trek, this gent from the late 1840's..." The image is courtesy of the Western Reserve Historical Society, Cleveland, Ohio.

Is that a Hall carbine?

[Grogan]

Grogan,

The persona I wish to portray is a person born or married into Mexican Citizenship

As such, in 1852 he would be in his fities or sixties, as am I.

Ellis,

Down there and in these days, that should be EASY! 

I'd run an ad in Craigslist 

(Just funnin ya Pard  )

[WaddWatsonEllis]

The God Rush accelerated things in Northern California so much that very little records of Californio life are extant after 1849 ... I thought I had my man in Jared Sheldon.

He was one of the first Yanquis to get to Northern California ... and became Catholic and a Mexican Citizen. A Yanqui who converted to Catholicism and became a Mexican Citizen:

Jared Dixon Sheldon, one of our earliest pioneers and originally from Vermont, came to California in 1832 and at some point afterward became a Mexican citizen. In 1842, Thomas Larkin, who was then the American Consul to Mexico, was awarded the contract for expansion and improvement of the Customs House in Monterey, which had been built in 1827. Jared Sheldon worked on this project for Thomas Larkin. Based on the size of the land grant he received as payment for services to the Mexican government on this project it could be assumed he was a foreman. He was granted Omochumnes Rancho, nearly 14,000 acres near present day Sloughhouse and Rancho Murieta, in 1843 for his work. It was there that he and friend William Daylor built a grist mill in 1845 to mill wheat for Capt. John Sutter on the Cosumnes River. To supply water to his crops south of the river he built a dam 16-ft high, double-walled of heavy oak, and filled with large stones. On July 12, 1851 he was shot and killed by 40 to 100 angry miners in the river below his dam. Also killed in the shootout were 2 of Sheldon's 12 friends, James M. Johnson of Iowa and Edward Cody of Illinois. Three men were wounded, including a miner. The prevailing miners destroyed the sluice gate in the dam. They had unrecorded gold mining claims in the river-bottom on Sheldon's land, which would be flooded by the rising water upstream from the dam. Subsequent floods continued the dam's destruction, and hydraulic mining in Michigan Bar buried the remnants in silt. Public right of access to California streams was not clarified until 1879. This display shows how the mill worked and pictures of the remains of the mill. Various parts of the mill are now on display at the Heritage Park in effort to help preserve this part of our rich heritage. Plans are underway, as funding allows, to create a working model of Sheldon's Grist Mill.


Only problem is that the dam became his demise exactly one year before I would be needing an identity.

So I am still searching ... I have gone through the Sacramento Room in the State Library; the only thing listed as being more inclusive is the Bancroft Library on the UC Berkeley campus in Berkely CA. So as soon as I find a cheap place to stay down there (Meaning free if possible *S*), I guess it is my next step in researching a persona.

Any suggestions? I would love any PM that would give me a name or direction to pursue.

[Books OToole]

Is that a Hall carbine?

Yes, it is.  And a Dragoon in the belt hoslter.

Books

[The Elderly Kid]

WWE,
A weapon you might consider is the "espada de ancha." It was a short saber very popular among horsemen in Mexico proper and I would imagine in California as well. About half the length of a regular saber, it answered for the purposes of a peon's machete, but with a more elegant appearance befitting a gentleman. There is a very fine example in the Museum of Texas History in Austin. From just a few feet away it looks much like a D-handled machete, but with a narrower and more tapering point, but up close you can see that the blade sports some very fine gold inlay. Clearly it was once a fine sword and was probably cut down for easier handling on the frontier. It has about a 24" blade.  Thus you would have a sword that could still be used to clear brush and cut forage for your horse, and was a more practical sword for dismounted combat than a full-size saber and could be worn afoot on the belt or on a baldric like an oversized Bowie.  It might be termed a horseman's cutlass.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

What you say is quite true for most hispanic horseman of the New World. From Gauchos to Californios, there was a real tendency to make a short sword/long knife,especially from the hilt end of a broken saber ...

I even have a pic of a Californio with such a 'sword'

But I will only have on me what a dismounted Californio would be carrying around Sacramento town ... a quirt, an 1851 Colt (with holster and rig) a larger Belduque tucked into a Botas and a smaller Belduque on my belt ....

[Mogorilla]

Well, I can still sing the praises of the revolving rifle, actually a carbine.  colt made revolving rifles/carbines/shotguns on the patterson model and then later on the Root model.  I have not seen the root replicas as made by Palmetto, but I have held both true Colt Root Rifle and Carbine.  My assesment was in no way would I shoot the rifle. It was heavy and the only way to get a good bead on it was to hold the forestock.  Which even if you cylinders functioned perfectly is still going to burn your hand.  The carbine was a carbine from the Texas rangers in the 1850s before the unpleasantness.  It was a natural pointer and your forehand could grip under the trigger with no problem.  If you ever win the lottery, look to a root carbine.   
On a side and not to highjack the thread, i shoot a 1860 colt army and have an attachable shoulder stock for it.  As accurate as my Henry rifle at 50 yards.  (me shooting of course)

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

A lot would depend on the economic level of the character that you are portraying. The wealthier,the better armed.
If you are going to carry the Ruger Old army,you could use a military style holster(Which were widely used by civilians)
with the butt covered by the flap. Although the Ruger resembles the 1858 Remington,the '58 did not have adjustable sights nor a big knob at the end of the loading lever. Also Not that many '58's had been produced or sold by 1860, so finding one on the West coast would have been rare. A Dragoon,1851 Navy,1849 pocket or Patterson would have been far more likely. Another good choice would be a single shot. On knives,the Bowie style blade was not as wide spread as the movies would have you believe. straight, single edge blades were more common.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Mogorilla,

As I have talked about before on this thread, there are two things against considering a rifle.

1.) I bought the Pietta 1851 Colt to carry in a holster as a docent. I may fire it just to say I have, but cannot see me having a reason for a stock.

2.) My cahracter would live outside the city on a ranchero and would just be coming in for supplies .
As such, he would have left anything difficult to carry (i.e., shotgun, rifle, pistol stock etc. with his horse at a livery stable.

3. If I was going to think about a stock, it would have to be for my two Ruger Old Armys, which I DO shoot .... *S*

[kflach]

Just a question for info - not a 'challenge'...

Did people leave things as essential as a rifle at places like livery stables?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Kflach,

Here are my thoughts on leaving a long gun behind ....

1.) If I were putting into a new town and had no relationships with anyone there, or if I was tying my horse up on the street, well yes I would definitely go through the hassle of carrying the weapon with me.

2.) But if I made the same trip to the same destination town on a weekly basis, I would find a trustworthy liveryman, the sherriff's office, Wells Fargo Office or a hotel front office person to leave the gun with.

Remember also that this is 1852; a lever action will not come out until the 1860  Henry. The penultimate long gun would be a .45-.50 caliber plains rifle (single shot) or a cap and ball 12 gauge SXS shotgun. The two shots from the shotgun might be good in a barroom gunfight, but neither were 'town guns'. And if I was picking up shovels, pickaxes and farming tools, I would not want another tool to be carrying ....

Beside, the 'Hispanic' thought was that gun action was mildly wimpy, even cowardly. That 'real men' settled things at very close distance with knives or short swords ... that any coward could stand accross the room and kill an opponent with a gun ... look at Wild Bill Hickock's demise for one instance.

[kflach]

That (item #2) makes perfect sense.

Thanks!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Kflach,

I wanted to address the earlier thread about being seen as confrontational.

As an Anglo playing the part of a Californio, I would much rather answer questions here than on my first day when a person starts asking really pointed, confrontational questions.

Instead of the 'Gee. I dunno; can I look it up and get back to you?" sort of responses, y'alls penetrating questions allow me to do a bit of research (if necessary), and chew on it overnight.

I am hoping that I will already have come accross 90% of my group's questions on this forum and have been able to come up with a good, honest response.

So bring on the tough questions! I would rather see them here than on my first group when the little 8 year old asks the really hard question and I go, "Gee. I dunno: can I look it up for you?"

[Major 2]

The escopeta, a light, smoothbore, muzzle-loading musket or carbine was a popular weapon of the 18th century soldado de cuera. Carried well into the 19th. Century,  this sturdy and dependable weapon saw use for nearly 200 years on the northern frontier.
Made with a Spanish or miguelet lock and a Catalan stock, There were many variations in barrel length, and stock design, but the miguelet lock was commonly used. In 1786, escopetas purchased for frontier use cost the Crown 6 pesos, 5 reales, 9 grains. The Model illustrated was made by Antonio Guisasola of Eibar, Spain, about 1830. It is caliber .75 with a Catalan stock and a 33 1/2-inch barrel. The quality of the piece indicates that it was carried by a gentleman or officer.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Major 2,

Great post and great weapon ... if I ever get into a docent position as a mounted person, this would definitely bear consideration.

Although nothing like the Escopeta, I used to have a Morrocan snaphance as a kid, and it brings back memories of that weapon ....

[River City John]

WaddWatsonEllis,
I have enjoyed your journey in developing a persona. Your statement that, in here, you relish hard questions that require hard research  so as to prepare your stagecraft in order to not cheat your audience, is not only honorable but enviable.

The very best teachers not only know their subject, but know how to inflame the imagination with that knowledge.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Major II;  Bore of .75.  That is the same as the Tower musket.  The Spanish & Mexicans used a lot of surplus Brit equipment. So this calibre as an officer piece would be consistent.