What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him?

Started by WaddWatsonEllis, September 08, 2009, 09:10:56 PM

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WaddWatsonEllis

#60
September 17, 2009, 11:39:41 PM
Hi,

For the life of me, I can neither find an internet store nor any source for the calzoneras, or Californio pants.

Does anyone know of a person who sells them?

Or a seamstress who would want to take on the job of transforming normal pants into calzoneras?

Thanks!
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

Dr. Bob

#61
September 17, 2009, 11:46:11 PM
Wad,

Here ya go!  Hamilton Dry Goods.

     http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/Vacaro.htm

Not museum quality, but PC.

Not expensive either! ::) :D ;D
Regards, Doc
Dr. Bob Butcher,
NCOWS 2420, Senator
HR 4
GAF 405,
NRA Life,
KGC 8.
Warthog
Motto: Clean mind  -  Clean body,   Take your pick

WaddWatsonEllis

#62
September 18, 2009, 01:38:39 AM
Dr Bob

Thanks! 

I never thought to search under Vaquero pants!

The tan ones match the jacket that is on order, and the blue strped ones would match the blue jacket I was thinking of ordering..

So I have listed the page as a favorite, and will be ordering next payday ....
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

WaddWatsonEllis

#63
September 18, 2009, 06:03:20 PM
There were these 'calzoneras' online that I might be purchasing.

The trouble is that every pair of calzoneras that I have seen in print and painting had buttons that, at least in theory, could be unbuttoned all the way up to the waist of the pants.

These 'calzoneras' or Vaquero pants only have buttons to the mid-thigh.

Is this a later period of these calzoneras, or would they be appropriate for the late 1840s or 1850s?

Thanks!
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

WaddWatsonEllis

#64
September 18, 2009, 06:42:29 PM
Funny how life changes ....

One of my favorite "Westerns" is 'The Wonderful Country" with Robert Mitchum.

He plays a man torn between his life north and south of the Mexican/US border.

Now that I know so much more of Californio clothing, I watched with new eyes to see how accurate the clothing was ...
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

murf

#65
September 18, 2009, 09:27:00 PM
Wadd,the wonderful country is one of my favorite movies.I have been trying to find it for sale on DVD for awhile.I really like the sombrero's in the movie.Last night I watched a movie called jubille trail it had lots of Californio clothing.Wadd is sutter's fort going to remain open with the cuts the state is making.I live about 20 min from the fort.Thank you all for the great info,murf :D
Gold counrty ca.

WaddWatsonEllis

#66
September 18, 2009, 10:16:00 PM
Well met, Murf!

I just looked at Amazon.com to see if they had a DVD of it ... but all they had was non US format. No videos either ...

I will try to run one down ... if I do, I will announce it on the Movies Thread .... I have a friend who can make DVDs out of VHS ... so we will see.

My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

WaddWatsonEllis

#67
September 20, 2009, 01:36:59 PM
Just wanted to 'bump' this post and hope that some of my questions get answered ....

Especially about calzoneras ... are ones that buttoned from mid thigh down a later development than the 1840s or just a variant that was always there?

Help Guys!
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

Dr. Bob

#69
September 21, 2009, 07:48:58 PM
James,

Thanks!  The pair that I have that seem pretty authentic to me [?] are made of wool with a leather riding seat.  The legs are split at the middle of the thigh.  There are buttons on the upper part, spaced like the working buttons on the lower 2/3's.  I wear drawers that show and then Stacy Adams shoes.  ;D  ;D  ;D
Regards, Doc
Dr. Bob Butcher,
NCOWS 2420, Senator
HR 4
GAF 405,
NRA Life,
KGC 8.
Warthog
Motto: Clean mind  -  Clean body,   Take your pick

WaddWatsonEllis

#70
September 21, 2009, 08:04:59 PM
Dr Bob,

I was just on the web book that James Hunt so kindly offered .... in it, the author describes the fashions of LA and distinctly mentions that an option of some of the calaveras was to be split and have buttons to mid thigh.

So it is PC and I will be ordering my first pair on Friday ... BTW, they are marked down to $39.00 now .....

So now I have all my clothing, a quirt, a Belduque, I have on order a belt and holster and am waiting for delivery of an 1851 Colt (so my character would have to be in the 1852-1855 era ... it looks like the only things I have to start saving for is a pair of Botas de Alas so that I can tuck the Belduque into one of them ....

And, in a perfect world, find a person/company who sells spanish style big (1 1/8" radius) pointy cruel spurs ... and don't worry, they will never be on my boots when I ride a horse ....

So if anyone knows a person/company that sells aftermarket chihuahua style Mexican rowels, please let me know ....
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

Grogan

#71
September 21, 2009, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: WaddWatsonEllis on September 21, 2009, 08:04:59 PM
So if anyone knows a person/company that sells aftermarket chihuahua style Mexican rowels, please let me know ....

Like these?



(Hmm...guess yer lookin for Iron Rowels...Bronze won't do?)
Regards,
Grogan, SASS #3584

Frontiersman: The only category where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s. -Canada Bill

WaddWatsonEllis

#72
September 21, 2009, 09:18:19 PM
Grogan,

Actually, bronze is what I would prefer.... *S*

I went to the Lindholm Brother's website to ask if they sold just rowels .....

And I was immediately Daemoned when I tried to use the email on their website.

So I will have to attempt to call them tomorrow ....

But thanks! I had done internet searches and could not find anything for 'rowels' that might work....
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

WaddWatsonEllis

#73
September 21, 2009, 09:41:41 PM
I called and got one of the Lindholm Brothers ...

He said to take the 'www.' off the address.

Sure enough, it worked fine.

But he said that yes, they will sell just rowels ... and the price was great ... far cheaper than buying new spurs ....

So I will be sending them a check on Friday ....

By the way, their website is:

www.lindholmspurs.com
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

murf

#74
September 23, 2009, 12:50:58 AM
Wadd try ebay I have a pair of old style californio spurs I got on ebay.Spurs and tooled straps for about $100.

good luck,murf
Gold counrty ca.

Major 2

#75
September 23, 2009, 04:31:36 AM
Wadd

When I chimed in early on suggesting a 51 Navy (or a 49 pocket Dragoon ) I did not do so lighty.
The simple answer is found in this book
Colt: The Making of an American Legend
by William Hosley

when planets align...do the deal !

WaddWatsonEllis

#76
September 23, 2009, 10:21:13 AM
Major 2,

I did not take your post lightly, and respect your studies.

In fact, with all the many fine books that have been suggested to me, I have started a WORD document listing all the titles and authors so that I can start reading them .....

And from all the work that I have been able to lightly scratch up, i.e. Wickipedia on 1851 Colts, it appears that they were first in production in 1850, and were a factor (in 1851-52) if not the primary weapon that they became during the later Gold Rush....
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

St. George

#77
September 23, 2009, 10:55:32 AM
Wikipedia is a 'do-it-yourself' affair.

Always double-check any information gleaned from that site.

Incidentally - the California Gold Rush is generally considered to have ended in 1858, when the New Mexican Gold Rush began.

The 49ers who stayed found the land unbelievably productive, and ultimately California's great wealth came not from its mines but from its farms.

Remember too - the large, 6"-rowelled 'Espuelas Grandes' were designed for use by a mounted man, and not for town use.

The slightly smaller versions are often referred to as 'Chihuahua' spurs, because of their purchase at the big Trade Fairs in that border region.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

WaddWatsonEllis

#78
September 23, 2009, 11:33:02 AM
St, George,

First, I would like to thank you for your kind help and guidance .... without it I would be much less knowlegeable than I am today.

Yours and the other voices in hear have pointed where to look.

As I have said before, I am fortunate to live in a capital city ... I have already been to the California Room for a talk on Dashielle Hammett (way out of our historical era), so I know where I need to go next ... I see me having my nose in books for the next three months ... which in itself is good; it gives me a direction.

Like any massive movement (the Oklahoma Land Rush comes immediately to mind) it always seems it was not the participants, but the people who supplied (sutlers) and moved the particiapants (railroads) that became the Leland Stanfords and Charles Crockers ... in fact, if I remember right all of the Big Four who pushed the railroad through gained their wealth through supplying the '49ers; Huntington and Hopkins were partners in a hardware company; Stanford operated a grocery business with his brothers; and Crocker was a dry goods merchant. Kind of the supply chain coming full circle ....

Regarding spurs, I talked to one of the the Lindholm Brothers who is going to supply me with 'Chihuahua' style rowels to go in my normal spurs at a quarter of the cost of new spurs ....

So now I am just looking for a pair of inexpensive Botas de Alas ,,, an oxymoron if I ever saw one .... LOL
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403

Mogorilla

#79
September 23, 2009, 11:53:07 AM
While Chuck Burrows of Wild Rose Trading Co. makes the best looking Botas to be found (in my opinion), they can be made fairly inexpensively.   Chuck kindly posted historically accurate patterns on the leather forum, just look in the back pages.   A trip to tandy's can get you semi-accurate leather or Crazy Crow can get you simulated smoked brain tan, that is really close looking to the real thing.  (I have both real brain tan and the simulated, hard to tell them apart).   
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