Is the Bisley legal for NCOWS?

[DUKE DEADEYE NUKEM]

A friend of mine would like to know.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Duke.....
Here is the list of approved and disapproved firearms from the NCOWS web site www.ncows.org. If you scroll down you will see that the Ruger Bisley is not approved.

Bill


Approved Cartridge Firearms



                                                                                                 Revolvers, Reproductions

SAA 1873 Colt clones by EMF, Navy Arms, Cimarron, Uberti, Armi San Marco, EAA ,and Beretta.

Colt Bisley models distributed by EMF, Navy Arms, and Cimarron.

Colt 1873 Target models distributed by Navy Arms

Colt 1872 Open Top Models distributed by EMF, Cimarron, and Navy Arms.

Conversion Models distributed by Cimarron, Navy Arms, & others.

Ruger Full-size Vaquero and new Ruger Vaquero

Remington 1875 and 1890 SA manufactured by Armi San Marco, Beretta, & Uberti.

Smith & Wessons distributed by Navy Arms, Cimarron and others.

Conversion cylinders by Kirst and R&D

Taurus Gaucho, and Colt Cowboy

Colt models 1889, 1892,1894,1895,1896,1901,1903, and Colt New Police

Webley revolvers with Birds-head or Banana grips eg. (MK1, MK2, MK4, MK5)

Model 3 Russian by Uberti, Navy Arms

Beretta Laramie by Uberti, Beretta





                                                                                                            Pocket Pistol

Any approved hand gun with 4 inch barrel or shorter; any approved pistol caliber.



                                                                                                    Rifles, Reproductions

Winchester Models 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, and 1892 manufactured by Armi San Marco, Uberti, and others

Winchester '94s if they retain the physical characteristics and appearance of 1894 models manufactured prior to 1899, in approved cartridges.

Marlin '94 and '95s if they retain the same appearance as the originals prior to 1899, and as long as they are chambered in approved calibers/cartridges and safe in operation.

Colt Lighting models by Tri-Star and  the Taurus Thunderbolt and US Firearms Lightning clone and Beretta Gold Rush Carbine

Spencer, all models

Sharps by Pedersoli,  Armscor, and others

Remington Rolling Blocks

Winchester 1885 High and Low Wall

Ballard, all models

Springfield 1873 Trapdoor, all models

Remington Hepburn models

Marlin 1894CB in32H&R Magnum

Peabody Rifles produced by Providence Tool Company

1876 Winchester replicas, made by Uberti and Chaparral Arms



                                                                                                 Shotguns, Reproductions

Winchester 1897 pumps by Norinco and Tri-Star

Side-by-Side/Double Barrels: approved models are too numerous to list here.

Winchester 1887 lever-action 12 ga.

IAC 1887 replica lever-action shotgun

IAC 1893 replica pump shotgun

Single trigger/ double-barreled shotguns

Top-lever break single shot shotguns that retain the characteristics of pre-1899 originals

                                                                                             

                                                                            Not allowed are the following:

                                                                                                               Revolvers

Ruger Vaquero Bisley

Ruger .32 H&R

Cimarron Lightening

Cimarron Thunderer

Cimarron Model P Jr.

"P" frames with Birds-head grip

"Pinkerton"-grip firearms

Uberti '73 SAA with cap and ball cylinders

Ruger Old Army cap and ball

Navy Arms Scout and similar small framed revolvers

Non-birds head or non-banana gripped Webleys'

Colt Police Positive



                                                                                                                   Rifles

Winchester '94 with angle eject

Henry Big Boy and all other models

Modern lever-action rifles in current production equipped with angle eject, ramped front sight.

H&R Buffalo Classic

Beretta Renegade (an 1873 w/factory installed short stroke)


                                                                                                               Shotguns

Modern shotguns with vent ribs

Modern recoil pads ( no white line spacers).



Gun Modifications:

Not allowed are the following:  Short-stroke kits for toggle link rifles, short stroke kits for revolvers, Lightning rods or similar devises, aluminum carriers for toggle link rifles.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

A friend of mine would like to know.

The original Colt Bisley is NCOWS legal.  Also, exact clones of this grip style are legal as well.  Uberti (& Beretta) market clones.  Here is a picture of the Colt Bisley frame:


The Ruger "bisley" is not a clone of the Colt Bisley.  It is a "Bisley" in name only.  Since the Ruger design does not have any provenance in the Old West, it is not an approved NCOWS revolver.  Here's a picture for visual reference:

[Pancho Peacemaker]

For fun, here's my wife's Beretta Bisleys.  The grip frame on this matches the Colt.  The grips I made and stained myself:

[Tjackstephens]

The Ruger Bisley is a great revolver. The blackhawk bisley is a very good hunting revolver and a lot of people really like the Ruger Bisley for cowboy action shooting. However the grip of that gun is a copy of the Elmer Keith #5 and came well after 1900. Only the Colt Bisley or clones of that gun have the grip that came before 1900 and that's what makes them NCOWS legal. If you own the Ruger Bisley you have a fine weapon, enjoy it just not in a NCOWS shoot. Tj

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Yep - what TJS said!

[Professor Honeyfuggler]

Duke.....
Here is the list of approved and disapproved firearms from the NCOWS web site www.ncows.org.

Raises the question, how often do they update the list? Just curious. For instance Pietta has a new '97 shotgun, which isn't listed as approved or forbidden.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Professor...
Agenda items (Guns) are submitted by members to be voted on once a year at our congress meeting. With that submission it is up to the member submitting the item to provide data to show it was in common use in the Old West.

Bill

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

For fun, here's my wife's Beretta Bisleys.  The grip frame on this matches the Colt.  The grips I made and stained myself:

Pancho.....I hope you've got a second pair of grips for those as I don't think "Passion Pink" is NCOWS legal.

Oh, go over to the Pale Horse Posse web site. They've got photos of those pretty little pistols and are having a real good time with them. Look under the topic of "Guns of the Desert Flower"

Bill

Pale Horse Posse Web Page
http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=mwclemons

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Pancho.....I hope you've got a second pair of grips for those as I don't think "Passion Pink" is NCOWS legal.

Bill

I do.  i have a second set of synthetic stag grips that make them look more "manly."

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I do.  I have a second set of synthetic stag grips that make them look more "manly."

Good!

   

[Texas Lawdog]

I've got one of those Bisley Blackhawks in the picture in 44 mag. I carry it in a shoulder holster when I am feral pig hunting.

[Lone Gunman]

Raises the question, how often do they update the list? Just curious. For instance Pietta has a new '97 shotgun, which isn't listed as approved or forbidden.

The procedure to have an item added to the approved list is outlined in ByLaw 7 (click HERE). An important step in seeking the approval of a Pietta mfg 1897 shotgun would be to show that it was an authentic reproduction that markedly resembles the 1897 Winchester.  Personally I was not aware that Pietta was manufacturing an 1897 and I'd be a little skeptical that they would choose to compete with the Chinese who have typically dominated the reproduction shotgun market. I found nothing on Pietta's website to change my mind about that. I did, however, notice one manufactured exclusively for Marstar Canada by Chaparral (not Pietta) but nothing to indicate there was a U.S. distributor.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

The procedure to have an item added to the approved list is outlined in ByLaw 7 (click HERE). An important step in seeking the approval of a Pietta mfg 1897 shotgun would be to show that it was an authentic reproduction that markedly resembles the 1897 Winchester.  Personally I was not aware that Pietta was manufacturing an 1897 and I'd be a little skeptical that they would choose to compete with the Chinese who have typically dominated the reproduction shotgun market. I found nothing on Pietta's website to change my mind about that. I did, however, notice one manufactured exclusively for Marstar Canada by Chaparral (not Pietta) but nothing to indicate there was a U.S. distributor.

Chiappa has introduced a new '87 (note not '97) replica.  Very pretty gun with case hardended receiver and such.  Perhaps this is the new Italian shotgun you are referencing? 

I fear this '87 will go the way of the Beretta Laramie:  Nice firearm, but not well priced for the cowboy market.  The Chiappa '87 is going for twice what a chinese Coyote Cap '87 special is selling for.

Pancho

[Professor Honeyfuggler]

Chiappa has introduced a new '87 (note not '97) replica.  Very pretty gun with case hardended receiver and such.  Perhaps this is the new Italian shotgun you are referencing? 

Yes to '87.... I just fat fingered the typing... but no, i was referencing several notices I had run across that mentioned a new '87 from Pietta, with the description you mentioned, and I even had a Pard's wife ask me at a shoot ask me if I knew anything about it, said she'd buy it for hubby in a minute if she could find one.

It may have been a mistake. I was just checking Google again and ran across this PR Release listed, verbatim:

"LSI Announces the Addition of the Puma Model 1887 Shotgun (1/02/09) ... manufactured in Italy by the well known firearms reproduction maker, F.lli Pietta. ..."

But the elipsis made me wonder what was missing in the middle. Made me think it might be extracts of two notices squished together inappropriately, the first for the Chiappa 1887 Shotgun,  the second for another gun by Pietta. In any case, Chiappa or Pietta, it is a very pretty gun, yes, and it is a lot more money than a Norinco, yes, but it could find a certain market based on much higher quality.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Pancho.....I hope you've got a second pair of grips for those as I don't think "Passion Pink" is NCOWS legal.

Oh, go over to the Pale Horse Posse web site. They've got photos of those pretty little pistols and are having a real good time with them. Look under the topic of "Guns of the Desert Flower"

Bill

Pale Horse Posse Web Page
http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=mwclemons

Bill,

I fear that peer pressure has prevailed.  I offered this brace of pistols as 'back-up' guns to several shooters at the SW Regional.  My charity was catagorically rejected with ridicule.  Oklahoma Tom has dubbed these guns as the "Pepto Bismol Pistols".

Thus, for my winter project, I'm making a new set up grips for these guns that will cause less of a stir.  As you may know, these Beretta Bisley's have a slightly different grip angle than other Uberti Bisleys, thus quality wood aftermarket grips are hard to come by.   I bought some oversized, unfinished grips from VTI.  After some shaping, sanding, & finishing, they are looking like this:


. . . and the finished product:

[Steel Horse Bailey]

What a nice improvement!  Nicely done, Greg!

[Roscoe Coles]

Well, just for the historical bent, and not in any way to support Panchos' ugly grips  , let me say this.  You don't see them often, but dyed ivory grips did exist in the 19th century.  Remember, ivory was commonly used for pool balls and it takes dye quite well.  I ran across a fellow many years ago who collected colts, and other 19th century revolvers, with dyed ivory grips.  He had more than 20 of them, the most common colors being red and green.  They were pretty faded with age, but they must have been quite vibrant when they were new.  Personally, if I were to go to the expense of some more ivory grips, I wouldn't dye them, but folks in the 19th century had an eye for color.

[French Jack]

Roscoe,
I wonder if they were referred to as "Pimp Guns" at the time??

Or if the owners were called "Ol' Three Ball", or, "Six Ball"---------   

[Roscoe Coles]

Good question.  The interesting thing is that I have never seen a set of dyed ivory grips in a book or for sale, (I made my living at big gun shows for better than a decade) but I have held a bunch from this fellow's collection.  I would say that they were pretty rare.