Henry Accuracy Load

Long Johns Wolf · September 02, 2009, 01:29:24 AM

Hello to the campfire: I am working on a nitro accuracy load for my .44 cal steel frame Henry. I am using .44 Colt cases from Starline in this .44 Special rifle. That load is to be used for long-range like 300 yards/meters only, not for regular CAS activities. My bullets are .430 dia, hard cast (BH 16) and I am working with 200, 240 and 250 grainers for this project. At 100 m I get best accuracy with the 240 grainers, followed by the 200 and then 250 grainers.
Did chronographing, too. The average V0 of the 240 grainers is 245 m/sec, of the 250 235 m/sec.
I feel that I have to increase the velocity for the long-range, and might have to use the 200 grainer because the heavier bullets will loose too much speed over the distance which may affect accuracy.
Here are my 2 questions for the initiates:
What type of crimp is suggested?
To which max. velocity (right word?) can I push these bullets without eventually ruining the toggle link system of the Henry? If memory serves I read somewhere something like 1000 f/sec but don't recall the bullet weight.
Any suggestions here?
Thanks & cheers.
Long Johns Wolf

Joe Lansing · September 02, 2009, 09:29:13 AM

Your crimp should "bite" the bullet so as to keep it from going deeper into the case. Your MV should probably stay under 1200 FPS.
What you got wrong is the bullet weight.... You can use whatever works best for you, but the heavier bullet will maintain its velocity over the distance. Lighter bullets slow down at a faster rate.

J.L.

Trailrider · September 02, 2009, 01:28:26 PM

Quote from: Joe Lansing on September 02, 2009, 09:29:13 AM
Your crimp should "bite" the bullet so as to keep it from going deeper into the case. Your MV should probably stay under 1200 FPS.
What you got wrong is the bullet weight.... You can use whatever works best for you, but the heavier bullet will maintain its velocity over the distance. Lighter bullets slow down at a faster rate.

J.L.

Correct! Heavier bullets will drop more, but will maintain their velocity over a longer distance, and will buck the wind better than light ones. Think the difference between a shuttlecock and a tennis ball. The shuttlecock will come off the racket quite fast, but slows down very quickly. The tennis ball may come off slower, but definitely maintains its speed over a longer distance.

Driftwood Johnson · September 02, 2009, 06:01:16 PM

Howdy

I have said this many times, but it obviously bears repeating again. It is not velocity that is ithe important parameter in keeping any reload safe. It is pressure. Picking an arbitrary velocity, whether it is 1200 fps or 800 fps is meaningless. It is the pressure that is important. The reason for this is one charge of one powder may deliver the exact same velocity with the exact same bullet as a different charge of a different powder, but the burning characteristics may make the pressure vary widely between the two.

Stick to published loads in published manuals. Your steel framed Henry will safely digest any load that does not exceed SAAMI Max pressure. Any reputable manual will list loads that do not exceed SAAMI max pressure. Of course I suspect you are not likely to find many loads for 44 Colt in any published manual. For that reason, If I wuz you, when trying to push my Henry to the extreme I would only load 44 Special cases to the max pressure, and no more. That way you will know exactly what you are dealing with.

Joe Lansing · September 02, 2009, 07:48:09 PM

Right on about the pressure. Unfortunately, we generally have no reliable means of measuring pressure and must rely on the published results of the experts who have the means to measure pressure.
It's nice to be able to chronograph your loads, but.. and especially with toggle link rifles.., one should still work within the perameters of published data. One should also understand that instruments should be calibrated regularly. I used to work in research, and every instrument we had...even mercury thermometers, were on a periodic calibration schedule.
Addressing accuracy, there is a phenomena that not everyone is familiar with. When a bullet decelerates through the speed of sound, it shudders or vibrates, which may affect accuracy. To avoid this and get better accuracy, if a bullet leaves the muzzle faster than sound, it is desirable for it to arrive at the target faster than sound. If this condition can't be met, the bullet should leave the muzzle slower than sound. If the distance to the target is too great, it may not be possible to do this. This does not mean accuracy is impossible, just that you may not get the best accuracy possible.All of this is considering all else is equal: best ammo; best sight; best hold; best wind;etc.,etc.

J.L.

Coffinmaker · September 05, 2009, 08:14:50 AM

LJW,

There are some Variables. I expect you have slugged your bore and selected a bullet of the correct diameter for it.

Specific velocity does not matter much so long as it within SAMMI specs. Even your "iron frame" should not be fired with ammunition over SAMMI specs.

Bullet length matters a lot. Depending on twist rate and groove depth, your rifle will stabilize each bullet you shoot differently. Some may not stabilize at all. Starting at 100m, the bullet shooting the best groups is the one you stay with, regardless of weight/velocity. Beyond 100m, the trajectory is like a rainbow anyway.

Bullet shape is important as well. Semi-Wad Cutters past 50m are a waste of time. Try a bullet with a Truncated Cone shape. Better ballistic coefficient.

Nice snug crimp. The most important thing about the crimp is consistency.

With .44 Cases in a .44 Special chamber you will have bullet "jump" from case mouth to rifling to deal with. The jump will effect accuracy to some extent. "Best" accuracy will be achieved with .44 Special cases.

The thought of "Bench Rest" type shooting with a Henry is ......... interesting

Have FUN!!

Coffinmaker

w44wcf · September 28, 2009, 09:01:05 PM

Long Johns Wolf,

If you were to load the cartridges to the same o.a.l. as the .44 Special, you could use .44 Special data since it is within the the pressure the toggle link action is rated for (14,000 cup).

The current Speer manual shows some loads in the .44 Special with a 200 gr. lead bullet in a 5 1/2" barrel:
Cartridge o.a.l. 1.440"
Primer: CCI 300
add approx 200 f.p.s. for a rifle barrel with these powders
7.8 / Unique / 1,043 f.p.s.
5.9 / N320 / 931 f.p.s.
5.4 / Bullseye / 927 f.p.s.

The current Speer manual shows some loads in the .44 Special with a 240 gr. SWC bullet in a 5 1/2" barrel:
Bullet used: 240 Speer SWC O.A.L. 1.475"
Primers used were CCI 300 and CCI 350*
add 200 f.p.s. for a rifle barrel
8.0 / HS 6* / 815 f.p.s.
(Hogdon shows 8.0 / HS 6 / 917 f.p.s. - difference in the pistol barrel used)
6.3 / Unique / 820 f.p.s.
5.2 / Bullseye / 793 f.p.s.

Hodgdon has some data for the .44 Colt and the .44 Special
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
click on: Cartridge Loads
load type: chose pistol
cartridge: chose .44 Colt or .44 special
click on: get data

Regarding the crimp.... the bullet is a tight fit in the case you just need a minimal crimp, just enough to roll the forward edge of the case slightly into the bullet.

Good luck,
w44wcf

w44wcf

Long Johns Wolf · September 29, 2009, 02:21:58 AM

Thanks pards, I work on these loads. The current loads I am experimenting with are Kemira 320 (= N320 in the USA).
I am singly loading the rounds into the chamber. So I assume a tight fit or minimal crimp will do. Right?
Long Johns Wolf

sundance44`s · October 01, 2009, 08:06:55 AM

Wolf if your loadings were black powder no crimp or min crimp may improve things .....but with smokeless thats a horse of a different color ... you may have better results useing a good factory type crimp .