Guess what this is...

Deadguy · August 31, 2009, 06:37:43 PM

Guess what these are....

Dirty Brass · August 31, 2009, 06:53:04 PM

Spanish .45 or Balistor Molina?

Deadguy · August 31, 2009, 08:22:08 PM

That was a USGI 1911 that had been living its entire life on Heathen powder. The ammo was loaded with a full case of BP and a DD-ROA bullet, which was used to baptize it into the true religion!

Steel Horse Bailey · August 31, 2009, 09:00:59 PM

Did you put in a light spring so it would cycle? We (my pard Randy and I) couldn't get the slide to recoil back all the way ... but we sure had fun tryin'!!!

Montana Slim · August 31, 2009, 09:39:15 PM

Tried it once myself..... just so I could say I did it

I used a very compressed load of 3F powder & 230 gr RN. It did cycle, and my gun is setup for standard hard-ball loads.
I won't mess with it again....primarily cause it isn't period-correct.

My standard line for a "Wild Bunch" match is:
Smokeless pro-pellant and self-loading pistols, what will they think of next!

regards,
Slim

Deadguy · August 31, 2009, 11:42:48 PM

It has the regular 16 pound spring, and no, it did not quite cycle. It would ALMOST cycle and stovepipe. So, either with a heavier bullet, a lighter spring, or gunpowder with a little more "oomph", and it will work just fine. I put 21 rounds through it, cycling it manually. At 25 yards firing offhand, I kept all the rounds in the center "kill zone" on a IPSC silhouette target that someone left at the range. There was no blowback on the cases. There was no fouling or other gunk inside the pistol. In fact, the interior and all moving parts were totally clean. The bore has some fouling in it, but it completely cleaned out with one pull of the boresnake. So, there is definitely some hope for this!

Steel Horse Bailey · September 01, 2009, 03:40:03 AM

No surprise here that it was so clean.

But don't tell ... the anti-BP shooters (you know, the ones who moan about how hard and long it takes to clean after shooting BP

) will want to try.

Dirty Brass · September 01, 2009, 07:44:44 AM

Quote from: Deadguy on August 31, 2009, 08:22:08 PM
That was a USGI 1911 that had been living its entire life on Heathen powder. The ammo was loaded with a full case of BP and a DD-ROA bullet, which was used to baptize it into the true religion!

Entire life? Only 21 rounds through it?

Why that's just a baby yet!

I might have to load some up myself and test my Taurus Tactical 45

Pony Racer · September 01, 2009, 08:40:54 AM

One of our VA pards Missouri Marshall put several magazines of Triple Seven loaded 45 acp through a 1911.

I want to say 70+ but might be a little less or more.

Gun functioned flawlessly

PR

Deadguy · September 01, 2009, 10:20:03 AM

Quote from: Dirty Brass on September 01, 2009, 07:44:44 AM
Entire life? Only 21 rounds through it?

Why that's just a baby yet! I might have to load some up myself and test my Taurus Tactical 45

no no no. It has had thousands, if not tens of thousands, of rounds through it since it was made in 1943. Those were it's 21 first blackpowder rounds....

Fingers McGee · September 01, 2009, 11:57:23 AM

Quote from: Pony Racer on September 01, 2009, 08:40:54 AM
One of our VA pards Missouri Marshall put several magazines of Triple Seven loaded 45 acp through a 1911.

I want to say 70+ but might be a little less or more.

Gun functioned flawlessly

PR

I've done the same. ffg T7 with a 200 gr rn in an AMT Hardballer. Cycled just fine. Will probably use the load for an upcoming WB match.

Dirty Brass · September 01, 2009, 03:29:45 PM

Quote from: Deadguy on September 01, 2009, 10:20:03 AM

no no no. It has had thousands, if not tens of thousands, of rounds through it since it was made in 1943. Those were it's 21 first blackpowder rounds....

Ah..... After re-reading the post I see that is what you said. Didn't catch the Heathan powder part.

Guess I gotta slow down and smell the roses a little....

Leo Tanner · September 01, 2009, 05:24:36 PM

If it was made in 43 and been fired that much you could probaly shoot just about anything through it. Then drop it in the mud.
Ya wipe it down an keep goin. The loose action was intentional in them days, it was better fer field use.

Flint · September 02, 2009, 01:53:52 PM

I loaded ACP with 2400 powder once, ran real smooth, but slow.

If it was hand cycled, the action would stay clean with black powder, just as the 66/73 does if the case seals well, as in 44-40.

Mako · September 02, 2009, 05:33:03 PM

I haven't said anything so far since I have posted a couple of times about using BP in a 1911. Last year there were a couple of threads I posted on. I didn't want to monopolize this thread, I was really curious as to what other's experience had been.

A while back I even shot an IDPA match using BP and a 5" pistol. I believe the recoil spring was a 12 pound spring I would normally use in a 4.75" slide compensated pistol. It might have been a 14 pound spring, but I just can't remember. However I do know the load, it was 17 grains of FFFg behind a H&G 68 (200 grain) bullet. I still have some and pulled a few bullets when the question of load came up before. It cycled okay but really needed a bit heavier recoil spring to assure stripping and fully chambering as the pistol got a bit dirty. I stated a while back I would like to find a load that would use a standard 16 pound spring and I needed to move to a 225 to 230 grain round nosed bullet to give me a bit more recoil impulse.

I know why you're having problems Deadguy. There are two : The DD-ROA takes up too much of your case capacity. That bullet has a huge groove, and when seated as you have shown it is deep... What is your load in volume, either CCs or grains? It is also because you were using the regular spring and a 210 grain bullet. Try a 14 pound spring. A word of warning, don't cut a 16 pound spring; that will give you feeding issues. You need that spring with the correct length to strip your magazine.

Another thing, my 1911s are literally as slick as owl snot. That one was Hard Chromed and lapped. If your pistol has the original rail clearances and machining finish it may be a bit inconsistent. Make sure it is super smooth to shoot BP. The 12 pound spring I was shooting was too light for that slicked up pistol. I was getting rebound during cycling which is hard on the gun and will cause feeding issues.

To determine the perfect spring you need one that will lock your slide back on your last shot when shot in your weak hand. In fact "limp wrist" it. When it consistently locks back, that's your spring. Load mags with only one round until you find that sweet spot. That is the ideal competition recoil spring, no more, no less. I went lighter than I probably should have because I was worried about cycling. I believe someone here reported the mag well was surprisingly clean, that was my experience. The chamber fouled a bit until I got smart and pulled a rod through it. I did that after I had a round slow to chamber and quick rap on the back of the slide fixed that. Springs are pretty cheap, get them at Brownells for about 7 to 8 dollars. Get a 12 and a 14.

Get as much FFFg as you can in that case and use a HARD taper crimp. But make sure it doesn't push that bullet back out. Taper crimps don't work as well with dead soft lead bullets and overstuffed cases. Make your overall length of that cartridge about 1.250". That is the perfect length for either a 230 RN or a H&G 68 or the Hornady 200 grain C/T match #45157 jacketed SWC they used to make (grrrrrrrrrrrrr...). I would go for 1.245 to 1.250"

Later,
Mako