NCOWS guncarts

[bear tooth billy]

We usually have a roped off area that gun carts have to be left behind that area.
Remember our era is 1865-1899. and there is no evidence that gun carts ever even
existed. Your idea looks cool although probably not historically correct.


               BTB

                       

[Abilene]

Well the Popp Motorwagon that J.B. pictured is an 1898 model.  If carts are allowed at all, I would certainly vote yes (NCOWS).  For SASS, it is strictly a range thing as some allow golf cart-type buggies (most do around here) and some don't. 

[Tascosa Joe]

The idea is pretty neat and creative, but where are you going to put all the stuff that needs to be carried.  The other thing I would ask is how many of these were produced?  I would have to go back to one of the items we added to the by-laws years ago "In common use".

[Books OToole]

As long as it is pre-1900 it should be NCOWS legal.  You may have to do some convincing that your contraption looks just like a pre-1900 contraption.  I think it is a great idea for a motor head with a spare lawnmower engine.


Books

PS - Some individual ranges have "gun cart" restrictions.

[OklaTom]

One other point so far not made on gun carts (although the one stated about how few one actually sees an an NCOWS event) is that you can't take them to the firing line. Generally, park them about 15 to 20 feet back. Especially at regional and national shoots. On the occasions I used 4 guns in a match, I still had no cart. Two holsters hold the revolvers. Saddle bags hold all my ammunition (or cap and ball requirements). Saddle bag goes on my shoulder, rifle and shot gun in my two hands. When I quit SASS, I quit carts.

[Twelve Bore]

I am a new member of NCOWS and am going to try to get a posse going in western NY. I have been involved with SASS/CAS for around 20 years. My question on gun carts is if they are left behind the line of sight of the people participating in the match what difference does it make what you use to haul your stuff around in? At 3 of the ranges we shoot at in my area when you look behind you, you are looking at the parking lot. So does it make a big difference on the experience if there are Rugged gear gun carts in you line of sight between you and the cars and trucks? The one thing I think would stop me from forming a posse her is with the age of the participants not being able to use carts we already own with our degreased physical abilities.

[OklaTom]

I am a new member of NCOWS and am going to try to get a posse going in western NY. I have been involved with SASS/CAS for around 20 years. My question on gun carts is if they are left behind the line of sight of the people participating in the match what difference does it make what you use to haul your stuff around in? At 3 of the ranges we shoot at in my area when you look behind you, you are looking at the parking lot. So does it make a big difference on the experience if there are Rugged gear gun carts in you line of sight between you and the cars and trucks? The one thing I think would stop me from forming a posse her is with the age of the participants not being able to use carts we already own with our degreased physical abilities.

There is a really simple answer here. What individual clubs allow for gun carts at their club matches is really of no concern to me as National Judge. First, I cannot police every match for every posse. But it is understood that, per the By Laws of NCOWS, all matches should follow all the NCOWS rules. Second, I realize that sometimes, exceptions need to be made and I am OK with that at the local level. Just not the Regional Match or National Match level.

I will also point out that at every Regional and every National event I have attended in my 20+ years, the venue has been set up to minimize the incursion of the 20th and 21st century advances in an attempt to create the illusion. Part of this is remote parking. But it cannot be totally eliminated. So, we do the best we can to stay appearing in the 19th century. Of course, the only gun carts in the 19th century were those wagons filled with crates of guns destined to transport for military or distributor receipt. Gun carts of the type being discussed never actually existed in the 19th anyway. They are an anachronism.

[Snake Oil]

There are two reasons I joined NCOWS...

1. Getting to shoot (working towards period correctness, but really to have fun shooting, whatever that looks like)

2.  Hanging out with some fun (unique, quirky, eccentric, crusty 
crotchety) individuals!! Who have similar hobbies, and desire to have safe fun.  (I would say clean fun, but you black powder shooters mess that up!!!   )

What I didn't sign up for was the long list of does and don'ts...

Some have responsiblities to make sure we are doing this "right" (judges, Marshalls, and others included, thank you for all you do!) and some of you all do this RIGHT (original class folks, I tip my hat in your direction)!

Individual adaptation is a necessity... perhaps even the father of invention... if everyone did everything by the book every single time we would have never advanced out of the cap and ball era!    Yes I'm sure I just heard some of you cheering!   

You need to do what you can to build this sport up rather than tear individuals down... someone just fronted $100 to build this forum up. (I'm not suggesting we move away from period correct, but come on... where is the spirit of the match?)  If you can get a NY posse wrangled... or the inclusion of some good ole fokes...that is worth some flexibility on bylaws, for the betterment of us all!!

[Baltimore Ed]

I would like to try a ncows shoot just to see where they put the targets. We still place them at sass's original recommendations. Sass and I guess wb shooters have gone blind and need their targets as close as possible. Just curious. Good luck on your possee snake oil.

[Major 2]

There are two reasons I joined NCOWS...

1. Getting to shoot (working towards period correctness, but really to have fun shooting, whatever that looks like)

2.  Hanging out with some fun (unique, quirky, eccentric, crusty 
crotchety) individuals!! Who have similar hobbies, and desire to have safe fun.  (I would say clean fun, but you black powder shooters mess that up!!!   )

What I didn't sign up for was the long list of does and don'ts...

Some have responsiblities to make sure we are doing this "right" (judges, Marshalls, and others included, thank you for all you do!) and some of you all do this RIGHT (original class folks, I tip my hat in your direction)!

Individual adaptation is a necessity... perhaps even the father of invention... if everyone did everything by the book every single time we would have never advanced out of the cap and ball era!    Yes I'm sure I just heard some of you cheering!   

You need to do what you can to build this sport up rather than tear individuals down... someone just fronted $100 to build this forum up. (I'm not suggesting we move away from period correct, but come on... where is the spirit of the match?)  If you can get a NY posse wrangled... or the inclusion of some good ole fokes...that is worth some flexibility on bylaws, for the betterment of us all!!

Nowhere, did I see any reference "tearing individuals down...."
And least of all, NCOWS and the reply's seen here....

NCOW's is member run, and our unique approach is what appeals to the membership.
Flexibility on bylaws may be offered, and they are voted on, majority then rules, and the bylaws may or may not be amended.

For example: Working Cowboy is two-gun discipline, voted on years ago and passed.
It, in fact eliminates any need for the gun cart. Carry the Revolver in a Holster, Rifle in your hand and 
a Haversack, saddle bag or tote.
If you wish, a 3 discipline and 4- gun are also offered as well.

That flexibility is not avowable in other Western Action Disciplines. 

[Froogal]

I would like to try a ncows shoot just to see where they put the targets. We still place them at sass's original recommendations. Sass and I guess wb shooters have gone blind and need their targets as close as possible. Just curious. Good luck on your possee snake oil.

Pistol targets are approximately 10 to 12 inches in diameter and are placed to maybe 15 yards out to maybe 25 yards. Rifle targets are maybe the same diameter up to approximately life sized and would be maybe 30 yards to 80 yards and maybe 100 yards. Targets for pocket pistol are within 10 yards.

[OklaTom]

Pistol targets are approximately 10 to 12 inches in diameter and are placed to maybe 15 yards out to maybe 25 yards. Rifle targets are maybe the same diameter up to approximately life sized and would be maybe 30 yards to 80 yards and maybe 100 yards. Targets for pocket pistol are within 10 yards.

This, of course, varies posse to posse. Factors are what targets they happen to own, depth of their range, and berm height. I have never, in my travels to NCOWS events in other states, seen targets as described above. Yes, some challenge target might be small as stated, but it won't be all of them. And I've never seen 80-100 yard rifle targets in a standard match - just long range side matches. And those lengthy shots were not at one foot diameter targets, but much larger.

Froogal, where are you shooting?

[Froogal]

This, of course, varies posse to posse. Factors are what targets they happen to own, depth of their range, and berm height. I have never, in my travels to NCOWS events in other states, seen targets as described above. Yes, some challenge target might be small as stated, but it won't be all of them. And I've never seen 80-100 yard rifle targets in a standard match - just long range side matches. And those lengthy shots were not at one foot diameter targets, but much larger.

Froogal, where are you shooting?

I belong to the Border Regulators, and no, we don't always shoot the long range targets, but those are often included in a stage. Sometimes for bonus points, sometimes just as a part of that stage.

[OklaTom]

I belong to the Border Regulators, and no, we don't always shoot the long range targets, but those are often included in a stage. Sometimes for bonus points, sometimes just as a part of that stage.

Gotcha. Yep, I have seen the long bonus targets, the "-5 seconds if you hit, doesn't count as a miss" target. Since this is the open forum, where non-NCOWS folks can come poke around and see if they want to play, I wanted to make sure we weren't scaring them off. As mentioned previously, the target size and distance varies from posse to posse as their resources vary.

[bear tooth billy]

Twelve bore as Marshal of this group I would like to thank you for considering joining our group, and would love to see you get a posse going in your area. No one has mentioned rifle racks, I think all NCOWS ranges
have racks usually between every other stage. I usually shoot originals class (2gun), so I only have a rifle
and carpetbag to carry. But most NCOWS ranges have people using guncarts. I see no reason at all that if
start a posse that this would be an issue, I would be very disappointed if you chose not to join just for this reason. I'm sure I speak for all of us that we would very much welcome your new posse into our organization
It would be great to see you at the convention next March.

                                      BTB

[Froogal]

Gotcha. Yep, I have seen the long bonus targets, the "-5 seconds if you hit, doesn't count as a miss" target. Since this is the open forum, where non-NCOWS folks can come poke around and see if they want to play, I wanted to make sure we weren't scaring them off. As mentioned previously, the target size and distance varies from posse to posse as their resources vary.

I've never visited anywhere else, but I feel that the Border Regulators range is kind of special, if it wasn't for that STEEP, LONG hill coming up from the stages. It gets steeper and longer each time I walk it. I've thought about a gun cart, but then I'd have to push it fully loaded up that hill which wouldn't be any easier than walking.

[bear tooth billy]

I can attest to the Border Regulators long targets. A few years ago I shot at
Colfax on Saturday and shot clean. Then on Sunday I shot with the Regulators,
same guns, and my misses were in the teens, 13 or 15. Still fun the  same for
everyone. I had never shot my old Winchester that far and that is not the place
to try figure out sight settings lol.

                        BTB

[Iron City Sage]

 Just getting interested in all this, and I'm lucky to have both a SASS and NCOWS posses within 15 miles of me. Going to check out both. From what I've read, I like a lot about both, and dislike some of both.

I guess I'll show up and feel both out, and see which one I can live with the most. I was looking for info on gun carts, as the SASS range is pretty large, and needing to drag around 4 guns, all that ammo and shells, seems daunting, but I will see how it goes. If I end up liking NCOWS, I guess I can always hitch a wagon to Friday, my Donkey, or Alice my Mule and have one of them pull it around for me. Period correct, if I get a more traditional blanket for this stupid cold we're having! Hell, I can bring my cast iron and use it as a combo gun cart/chuck wagon! 

I do find the bickering about being period correct, or historical accuracy a bit humorous, when folks are showing up in a Prius, have never been within 10 feet of a horse, and certainly haven't worked cows. The term all hat and no cattle seems to take on a whole new meaning! I think it's kinda cute!

Now excuse me, I have to bundle up to go break ice in the troughs, feed the cattle, horses mule and donkey. I will try to find a suitable hat that won't offend some folks sensibilities while I'm out ranching. Everyone wants to be a cowboy, until it's time to do cowboy stuff!

[Tascosa Joe]

Iron City:
One of the by lines of NCOWS is "Not everyone in the Old West were Cowboys".  We have room for Pinkerton Detectives, store keepers, the town butcher etc.  That is what makes in fun and we have other folks like you who are real ranchers and cowboys.  I hope you decide to become a member of NCOWS.

PS I didn't know it got cold enough in AL to have to break ice
T-Joe

[Navy Six]

I am enjoying the remarks about gun carts. I am a NCOWS member but unfortunately don't live anywhere near a NCOWS event(certainly wish there was one). I have attended SASS matches for over 20 years and a lot of that time my wife joins me. Four long guns, four pistols and 250+ rounds is a lot to lug around. I am wondering how some NCOWS members handle that situation if you wish to avoid a cart.