Span-Am to Phillipine Insurrection

[Grapeshot]

I aquirred a Colt .38 Army Special not long ago at a local Pawn Shop.  It looks like the 1892 - 1902 Colt New Model Army / Navy Revolver.  It is chambered in .38 S&W Special, not .38 Long Colt.  There are no Military markings but it does have the Lanyard Loop common to DA revolvers of that time period.  The grips are a hard dark rubber or plastic with the Colt Name emblazoned in an oval at the top of the grips.

Research indicates the .38 Army Special was made from 1907 to 1922 until the name changed to the Colt Official Police.

Did I find something I can use as a Span-Am piece in lieu of the M1892 .38 long Colt?

[Pitspitr]

I would think you ought to be able use it at the Musters since we allow certain substitution calibers such as using a .45 long colt in a Schofield instead of .45 Schofield. The final word on this though is Col. Sgt. Drydock.

[Drydock]

The Colt Army special is a 41 frame colt DA revolver.  This is the same frame as the New Army, but with improved lockwork.  As such it is allowed when paired with a Krag Rifle.  All 41 frame colts in proper configuration (.38 caliber, blued, light weight unshrouded 6" barrel) are thus allowed.  Frankly, its a far better suited weapon for what we do than the original New Army with its delicate lockwork.  I have one myself.

Interesting, but nothing I've seen shows the M1892 series New Armys equipped with Lanyard loops.  Like the SAA before, the army did not reqire them.  I think the first sidearm issued as equipped was the M1909 New Service.  (No, you do not have to remove yours, just thought it was interesting)

[Major Matt Lewis]

My Army issue M9 Berretta has a lanyard loop.  Can I us it at the Muster???

Just kidding as y'all know. 

[pony express]

My Army issue M9 Berretta has a lanyard loop.  Can I us it at the Muster???

Just kidding as y'all know. 

I think that would require considerable internal and external modifications to bring it to late 19th century standards. Removing the lanyard ring would only be the beginning. Besides, it is only .355 , .002 less than the minimum .357 caliber ....

[Grapeshot]

My Army issue M9 Berretta has a lanyard loop.  Can I us it at the Muster???

Just kidding as y'all know. 

I think that would require considerable internal and external modifications to bring it to late 19th century standards. Removing the lanyard ring would only be the beginning. Besides, it is only .355 , .002 less than the minimum .357 caliber ....

Now if it were a C-96, then we'd be in business.  Even if it were in 7.65 Mauser

[Drydock]

I carried an M-9  over in the sandbox for a few years.  Frankly, I would have preferred my Army Special to that dirt intolerant fragile POS . . . (Or do you want to know how I really feel . . .?)

[Texas Lawdog]

Those things had a bad habit of cracking slides.

[pony express]

When I got out of the army, we still had 1911s Am I that old??? And vietnam leftover"triangle handguard" M-16's There was one guy in my company that had an early one that was semi-auto only, and no forward assist. But then, Mr. Carter wasn't interested in spending money on guns, and we were an admin unit, too....not exactly top priority.

[Grapeshot]

I carried an M-9  over in the sandbox for a few years.  Frankly, I would have preferred my Army Special to that dirt intolerant fragile POS . . . (Or do you want to know how I really feel . . .?)

Make mine a M1911/1911A1.  The Colt M1909 or 1917 would be my second choice.

[Drydock]

Oh absolutely, Just comparing what we were speaking of.

My preference? Of the guns I have, in order

-1911a1
-Colt 1917
-Colt SAA .45
-Colt Army Special .38
-S&W 5th Model Safety Hammerless .38 S&W
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-M9

[pony express]

Oh absolutely, Just comparing what we were speaking of.

My preference? Of the guns I have, in order

-1911a1
-Colt 1917
-Colt SAA .45
-Colt Army Special .38
-S&W 5th Model Safety Hammerless .38 S&W
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-M9

The top 3 for sure, but when you get down to a 38LC or 38S&W, theres not much knockdown power there, but then on the other hand, at least you know it will most likely go "bang"

[Pitspitr]

So, lets take this thread in a slightly different direction for a while. I'm in the market for a Krag. What are the differences between the M-1896 and the 1898? Anything other than condition that I need to really take a look at? Any inherent weakness'?

[Mustang Gregg]

Texas Law Dog:

You are coming up to the 2009 Muster, ain't ya?  It don't look like we'll be able to send a detail, but I'm still working on it.  Maybe we'll cross paths at the Fort in Lincoln again.

Mustang Gregg

BTW:  My personal M-9 has had over 24,000 rounds of mil spec ball ammo through it .  No cracks in frame or slide or locking block.

[Texas Lawdog]

Mustang Gregg, I will be coming to the Muster this year. I will be at the Fort on Monday the 12th to buy myself some early birthday presents.   Col. Pitspitr,  Drydock should be able to help you out with your Krag questions. He found me one in Misoouri that I bought. I should be getting it in a week or so.

[pony express]

I looked at an 1898 molel in a pawn shop last week, but unfortunately Bubba has had a hold of it first. He threw away the handguard and cut off the forend in front of the first band. I didn't inpect the bolt real close, but I did look through the barrel, and it has visible rifleing, but of course really dirty, so that's all I could see. If Bubba had cut the barrel, too, it might be at my house waiting to become a carbine, or maybe a Phil;ippine Constabulary. But I'd only do that if someone else had already cut it....

[pony express]

BTW:  My personal M-9 has had over 24,000 rounds of mil spec ball ammo through it .  No cracks in frame or slide or locking block.

I have never fired one, so I can just go by what I've read. From my reading, I think they had solved the slide cracking problem early on, but in the desert they have problems with feeding rounds out of the magazine, I assume because sand gets inside the mag. The soldier's attemt to fix it was to strech the spring to get more tension, and the Army's solution was to only load 10 rounds, instead of filling it up. I think I'd just as soon have 8 rounds of 45 as 10 of 9mm.

[Drydock]

Problem with the M-9: as the barrel pivots down out of battery it stops with a flat spot on the barrel assy. meeting a mating surface in the frame.  Any dirt/sand on that flat mating surface. and the small pivot block snaps off, rendering the arm useless.  Happens a lot in dusty/sandy enviorments.  Weapon had to be cleaned daily, with all oil removed and carried dry.  Of course, firing in dry conditions also leads to the dissimiliar metals of frame and slide galling.  A decent design in a controlled enviorment.  Bad one in combat conditions.

Different models of Krag.  The most significant changes are the sights.  The 1892 Had some  minor differences in the bolt as opposed to the later models, and the positions of the Magazine cut off changed after the 1892 model, but thats about it. Everything interchanges.

Only significant problem with Krags is that some have been fired with too hot loads, and may have developed cracks at the base of the main locking lug.  This has been somewhat overblown over the years, I've never personaly seen one in the hundreds of krags I've examined, but I've seen a few pictures, and it is something to watch for.

[pony express]

So the basic difference between an 1896 and an 1898 is one is a harmless antique, and the other is an evil assault rifle that has to have govt approval to buy.

[Drydock]

?Any Krag produced 1899 or earlier is considered an "Antique".  1900 or later its considered the same as any other bolt action.