45-60 Cartridge Box

[triple w]

Anyone reproducing a replica period 45-60 cartridge box?

Triple W 

[Grizzly Adams]

Not that I know of, but maybe Buck will share a pic or two of an original.

[Buck Stinson]

I have several boxes with diffferent labels, but these are the only ones I can find right now.  Hope these will help.

Adios,
Buck


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/1876ammoboxes012.jpg

[larryo_1]

Y'know it would really be nice if that company that makes new copies of originals for the other cartridges would do the same for us that have the 45-60, 45-75 and 50-95 rifles.  I can't right off think of what their name is but the are advertised in the Buff Arms catalog if that is any help.

[Buck Stinson]

Larryo,
I believe you're talking about the Cheyenne Pioneer Cartridge Box Company.  This company was purchased several years ago by Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint, Idaho.  They do make fine cartridge boxes with nice labels, but it is unfortunate that the original box labels can't be reproduced and used. 

Adios,
Buck 

[larryo_1]

Buck:  we can only hope huh!

[larryo_1]

Buck:  You sort of yanked my chain about these labels so I just called Buff Arms and asked them about this.  They told me that Cheyenne has been thinking about doing this very thing but so far no joy.  I then asked when and was told that not to hold my breath but someday they will make them for all three calibers but when that will be-who knows.  So, the bottom line is that-at the present time, unless you could make a copy of an original label and glue it on a plastic box, forget it.  At least my curiosity has been satisfied.

[Buck Stinson]

Larryo,
As far as reproducing the "original" box labels like the ones in my photos, Buffalo Arms nor anyone else will likely ever do this.  I've been there and done that.  The WINCHESTER name is a registered trade mark and they still own the rights to any box labeling they have ever produced.  Same way with UMC (Union Metalic Cartridge Company) which is owned by Remington and the Peters Cartridge Company, which is owned by Marlin.  These are all still registered trade names and can not be used by anyone without express written permission from these companies.   I tried several years ago to reproduce an original green label Winchester box of .44WCF from my collection.  The box dates to around 1883 and just to be on the "safe side", I called Olin Chemical which is the Winchester ammunition factory and was directed to a lady in public relations.  I explained what I had in mind and she told me that the initial fee, just to get their "OK" was $90,000.  They also required a percentage of the profit.  She was quite abrupt and didn't seem to think my idea was worth a plug nickel.  Sooooooooooooo, I finished the boxes and labels I had started and kept them all for my own use. 

Adios,
Buck

[triple w]

Sorry it took so long to get back. Thanks guys...guess I'll just have to wait and try to locate a real one. 

Triple W 

[Buck Stinson]

Triple W,
I have a real one for sale if you're interested.  Let me know.  I will be gone until Monday evening the 31st.   Will get back to you at that time with description and price.

Adios,
Buck

[ndnchf]

If you want to make your own its not too hard to come up with something similar.  I'm no computer wiz, but a while back I was looking at a photo that Buck posted and was inspired to see if I could come up with something similar.  This is what I came up with:

[larryo_1]

Thats what I did when I made some labels for my 33 ammo boxes.  Worked well for me.

[Branding Iron Bill]

I would think that it would be ok to reproduce original lables for personal use only.  There would be a problem if the reproduced lables were to be sold for a profit, or passed off as orginals.  I reproduce orginal lables and boxes, but only for personal use.  I have given some to friends, but to avoid any legal issues, I would never try to sell any.

Those boxes are not that difficult to make if you have any experiance doing craft work.  A little trial and error is involved is all it takes.  With all the software that is available, the lables can be reproduced pretty dead on.  Just remember not to try selling any of them, because then the big dogs will come after you if they get wind of it.  That's the last thing I need is legal problems with corporate lawyers.

Am I ok on this?  If not, I'd like to hear otherwise.

[Grizzly Adams]

Just remember not to try selling any of them, because then the big dogs will come after you if they get wind of it.  That's the last thing I need is legal problems with corporate lawyers.

Am I ok on this?  If not, I'd like to hear otherwise.

My lips are sealed.

[Buck Stinson]

My reason for duplicating the .44 WCF box was to include it on our web site and in the catalog.  It is one of Winchesters classiest labels and I know they would sell.  I have around 300 original boxes of ammunition, all Winchester and UMC.  The labels are excellent and crisp, so my plan was to duplicate many of the old boxes for the 1873, 1876, 1886 and 1892 models.  I have every caliber in all of these models, except for the .45-82 WCF and the .50-100-450 WCF for the model 1886.  It's fun to go to a shoot with your ammo packed in 50 round boxes that look orginal.

Adios,
Buck

[Grapeshot]

Knowing how sofisticated computer programs are today, what would stop someone from scanning an original box and doctoring the graphics to bypass the copywrite aspects of the label?

[Mossyrock]

Knowing how sofisticated computer programs are today, what would stop someone from scanning an original box and doctoring the graphics to bypass the copywrite aspects of the label?

A good, steady moral compass.....   

[Buck Stinson]

You might as well start fresh by making your own label, just as the Cheyenne Cartridge Box Co. did.  Every aspect of the original labels are within the Winchester copywrite and trademark.  Nothing from the original labels, on any of these boxes, can be used legally, without written permission from the Olin Chemical Corporation.  It has already been said that in small quantities for ones own use, most of these labels could be copied.  The probelm I had was the fact that I had planned to make up an initial run of 500 boxes, which as I said, would be offered on my web site and in the catalog.  Because I do have a "good, steady moral compass" as Mossyrock put it, I wanted everything to be straight forward and above board and that was my reason for contacting Olin Chemical.  I had no idea that their restrictions and liscensing fees would be far beyond anything any mortal man could afford.

Adios,
Buck

[Niederlander]

$90,000???!!!!!!!!   You'd think they'd be in favor of reproduced cartridge boxes just for the free advertising.  I can't see where old time cartridge boxes would negatively impact their business in any way, especially since they're not doing anything of the sort.  Perhaps that sort of thinking is one reason Winchester is basically gone.  Such is the world we live in. 

[Russian]

Where can you get blank boxes for doing one's own labels?  I would hate to use the Cheyenne ones