New In Box Cap and Ball Shooter (Me, not a gun) guidance wanted

[Cemetery]

Hey everybody,  I'm new to cap and ball shooting, and I was wondering what system/equipment people use to get the powder from the can into the cylinder.

I read one or two places, that you shouldn't load powder directly from the can, nor a flask.

I was thinking of getting something like this:

http://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=76&pid=870&offset=4

with assorted spouts.

But when I went to see regular muzzleloaders in actions, they all seemed to have prepoured loads in vile type things, that looked like blood sample viles.

What does everybody else use?

[Paladin UK]

Ho Cemetery.......

Below is my take on this subject `n` its completly up to you the way ya decide ta go!!

I have used flasks like the one you are thinking of gettin and found that the operatin gizmo after a few months tends ta stick pretty bad the only way around it was a complete strip every so often which is a right BORE as BP shooters have enuf to do already.

The flask below is of the type I use just change the nozzle fer different calibres, nothin really can jam and the springs last fer years.



Paladin (Whut lurvs the Holy Black ) UK

[Mako]

Cemetery,
I currently use one of the largerTresos you show in your picture.  I also have the smaller one which is too small for anything except maybe .32 caliber revolvers or sticking in a belt pouch.  I like the valve better than the traditional one Paladin showed you.  I have a couple of the traditional Colt flasks (like Paladin showed) as well.

There is a disadvantage to either of theTreso measuree, they are too small to throw a complete match worth of 30gr charges.  I have to refill the larger one after about the 5th stage. The traditional Colt style measure will hold enough powder for a match. It really doesn't matter to me since I keep a can of FFFg in my cart.

The concern about loading from a flask really isn't an issue with CAS or really any C&B revolver.  It is a concern with muzzle stuffers (single shot rifles and pistols)... People shoot and then immediately reload and there may be an ember still present.

My advice is to get what looks good to you, you can't go wrong either way.  What do you think Paladin?


Regards,

[Noz]

Use a flask. Either of the above will work.

I carry one of the Cabela's black plastic flasks as a refill for my brass flask.

[Ellsworth MacDoogle]

Same here - various suppliers have them - called field model, or range model - would suggest getting the brass, not the plastic, for charging. The powder flows very slow in the plastic flask for some reason, but does work good for bringing extra powder to the shoot.

[Fingers McGee]

I use a silver flourentine flask that works the same as the Colt style flask pictured in Paladin's.  Most C&B shooters usa a flask & measured spout to load their pistols.  Mako's right about the concern about grenading a flask is virtually non-existent for C&B shooters.  It's more directed to single shot muzzleloaders.

FM

[kflach]

I'd been pouring from a Cabela's black plastic flask into a measuring tool and from that into my chambers. It was a real pain having to switch hands back and forth, set things down, switch hands more blah, blah, blah. I asked the same question you're asking, got the same advice you're getting, and bought myself a field flask similar to the one you're linking to. I got it online from Cabelas:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006439212239a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Product_liberal&QueryText=field+flask&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1


It looks like the one you've linked to but the powder release is like the one Paladin shows. It's easy to use and it consistently pours the same amount of powder (I checked it out to be sure). I'm thrilled with it!

I like this style because it's generic (I have a Remington revolver so I don't want a Colt powder flask) and I can stand it upright on the shelf when it's not in use, but that's probably a minor point.

[Angel_Eyes]

I think we have discussed the "grenade flask" before and personally I use the type shown by PUK, but bigger!!
I have two, the Texas flask and the Friendship flask, both of which will hold the best part of a lb of the black stuff!
(I also have far too many of the smaller ones in my collection as well as some cowhorn flasks I have made myself.

Isn't it amazing what you can get collecting when other guy's give up shooting???

Cemetery, keep on asking questions,,,the wealth of knowledge on this forum is astounding!

AE

[Cemetery]

Would it be unwise to go from the one pound can, with a stop spout, directly into a measuring tube with funnel, then into the cylinder?

[Fingers McGee]

Would it be unwise to go from the one pound can, with a stop spout, directly into a measuring tube with funnel, then into the cylinder?

No, It wouldnt be unwise to do it that way.  Mightr be a little cumbersome; but not unwise.

FM

[hellgate]

I have loaded from a flask (long cylindrical one or the Remington flask, the Colt flask is smaller than the Remmie). The main concern over an accidental explosion is whether there is an ember that could ignite the charge you pour into the cylinder. In a long fun there is more of that likelihood at the bottom of a long closed tube with low air circulation. In our revolvers there is ample time for an ember to burn out as there is adequate air to give it to flare out. By the time you get to the unloading table and off to your cart to reload any sparks are long gone. Not so in a long gun. The only caveat I would add is if you are shooting paper cartridges in your revolver there could be smoldering paper that could set off a flask grenade. So, I don't recommend pouring powder into a chamber you haven't visually inspected for paper fragments. When I did use paper cartridges I always carried tweezers to remove any unburned paper before reloading.

[kflach]

I just came across one reputable source that says not to leave powder in the cylindrical brass flasks between matches. I don't know why (my understanding is that un-fired black powder isn't corrosive) but I thought I'd better mention this.

[Paladin UK]

Fer  kflach..........

says not to leave powder in the cylindrical brass flasks between matches.

Looks like a whole lotta pards better start emptying thar ammo!!

Mako... With you 100% pard 

Paladin (Whats still laughing!!  ) UK

[Mako]

I just came across one reputable source that says not to leave powder in the cylindrical brass flasks between matches. I don't know why (my understanding is that un-fired black powder isn't corrosive) but I thought I'd better mention this.

Kflach,
These are some pictures of my flasks.  As you can see I store powder in them between matches.  During the summer that is often only a week, but during the winter it may be a month or six weeks.

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1668.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1671.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1677.jpg

You can see the outside gets quite tarnished and where the spout goes in the chambers it gets downright gnarly...  Now look at the inside, bright and shiny.  It's not a problem.

Where do these people come up with these "helpful" hints?   It's good to ask because there is a lot of misinformation out there even from people who have been shooting all of their lives.  Do you know what we call the gun magazines? "Comic Books."  I was in the firearms manufacturing business and I know a lot of the writers. I also know a lot of the other "nom de plumes" they write under.

The best to you,
Mako

P.S.  Palidin, I laughed when I read your comment about everyone unloading their ammo....Classic.   If those yo-yos had half the sense you did they wouldn't say such idiotic things.

[Fingers McGee]

I just came across one reputable source that says not to leave powder in the cylindrical brass flasks between matches. I don't know why (my understanding is that un-fired black powder isn't corrosive) but I thought I'd better mention this.

Don't know who the reputable source is; but, like Mako - I've never emptied a flask after a match, and don't know of anyone that does.  One of the things I do after returning home after a match is to replenish the balls & wads in my shooting bag & top off the flask so I'm ready to head out to the next match.  During the Mar-Oct shooting season I'm shooting 3 or 4 matches a month.  From Oct to Feb I may not even shoot one match a month if the weather doesnt cooperate.  Flask is always loaded.  As a matter of fact, the powder horn I use for my .54 Cal Tryon Rifle is hanging on the wall right now full of ffg Goex.  Last time i shot the rifle was over a year ago.  The last time before that was six years ago.  The powder that I used last year had been in the powder horn for 5 years, with no discernable ill effects (I won the match that I was shooting it in).

FM

[kurt250]

depending on what type paper cartridge you are using i can impart some of the knowlage i have picked up over the years. first of all old ammo is my thing. i load for many old rifles and handguns using both paper, combustable and matalic cartridges.i have never heard of a non-cumbustable paper cartridge that you were supose to ram down the barrel with out emptying the cartridge first. combustable cartridges are supose to be inserted into the weapon intact, thats what made them faster and easier to use. the  brown bess musket used a paper cartridge for its buck and ball and ball rounds. you were supose to tear the cartridge with your teeth, charge you flash pan, empty the remaining powder down the barrel then ram down the paper cartidge. the paper served as wadding. i use this type cartridge on my brown bess. never a bit of trouble. the enfield rifled musket of civil war fame used only the paper covering on the bullet. the remaining paper cartridge was discarded after pouring dow the barrel. the sharpes carbine used a linien combustable cartridge that was soaked in salt peter so it would consume itself. the same went for the colt 36 and 44 cap and ball. pistols. i have also never seen a reprint of the instructions that came with the colt c/b pistol from that time that advized you to grease the cyclinder opening to prevent a chain fire. i shoot all these type cartridges and have never had a problem. as to the empting of your powder flask between shoots that sound like legalez instead of safty. i think the people who advise this are the same people who wear out the guns tearing them apart to clean them. does anyone think that 130 years ago they stopped and boiled hot water to clean there guns? they also didn't carry a workshop with hammers and punches , screw drivers and all the other stuff i see so many of the shooters packing around at the range and meets. fix the problem, then you don't have to pack a repair shop around with you. treat these guns as they were treated 130 years ago. like your life depended on them. which they did back then. a undependable firearm was just useless baggage. kurt250

[hellgate]

I've been topping my flasks off for years. The only time I empty them is to change powder size for shooting rifled muskets. They are always full or about to be.

[kflach]

It's good to hear this. I wasn't sure if it was OK to put the powder back in the original Goex can so I poured the powder out of my brass flask and into my plastic flask for storage. That's one more silly thing I can eliminate.

I actually have been doing a full tear down wash up with soap and very hot water after every 3 - 4 uses. This last time I really became aware of the fouling on the hammer and all the pieces in that area down between the hammer and the trigger (is this called a 'firing chain???). I figured it was probably that my factory nipples were putting out a bunch of blowback, so I used that to justify buying some of those Tresos nipples everyone talks about. They should be here tomorrow.

If you don't tear the gun down now and then, how do you clean that area (all the things inside the frame between the trigger and the hammer) thoroughly? I can't get toothpicks or a toothbrush or even a pipe cleaner in there very well. Is the point that it just doesn't have to be done *every* time you shoot (but every now and then is OK)? That seems to be the consensus from the other threads on cleaning that I've read.

[Mako]

Kflach,
It really comes down to how anal you are and if the lock work is sufficiently lubricated.  I do a full break down more than most and I actually pull the cylinder between stages as well to keep debris out and really brush my cones hard each stage.  That along with brushing your hammer channel and the hammer face will really help keep you running.  I don't mess with bore or chambers much, the lube takes care of that.  I'm just trying to keep them functioning flawlessly an entire match.

I like your current regimen , try it and see if it works for you.  If you have problems then start reducing the interval by one match.

Best of luck,
Mako

[hellgate]

Kflach,
I had a '61 Navy that for the life of me I couldn't get the trigger spring screw out in order to break it down to get at the innards. I probable shot it about 1000 rounds over a course of 15 years. I  could get it into its 3 principle parts but never into the action so after each cleaning session I sprayed the insides with............................now here it comes....................(sacrilege)................WD-40!!!!!!!! I'd spray down where the hammer articulates and up into the trigger cutout. After many years of such travesty I finally got a house with a shop vise and got the screw out for a full stripping & cleaning. Inside was a whole lot of black mush and several caps and their remnants. The gun had functioned just fine all those years without a full bath. There was not a speck of rust inside as all the slush was oil-soaked. So, I really don't get too excited about the insides of my guns as long as there is oil in the fouling.