Sharps Centerfire Conversion

gevens · August 14, 2009, 07:55:29 PM

Yes, I also shoot Sharps and Trapdoors, but still like my Spencer. Which one I use as a "re-enacting gun" really depends on what year I'm trying to portray--1861-63, 1864-1872, or 1873 and beyond. (I also have a .30-40 Krag carbine for those rare times when we portray one of the Rough Riders in 1896-98). My Sharps is one of the 1863 percussion repros in .54 caliber and I can't get it to fire reliably no matter what I try (although I still need to try it with a drilled out nipple). I just shoot it with blanks and don't try to live fire it...yet. Anyway, since a lot of these percussiion Sharps were converted to centerfire in the years following the Civil War, I was wondering if anyone knows of anyone making a centerfire conversion block for a Sharps? Turning it into a 50-70 Gov't would be a hoot if it can be done for something significantly less than the cost of a repro centerfire Sharps carbine. In addition to the centefire breech block I'd probably have to sleeve the barrel as well.

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Fox Creek Kid · August 14, 2009, 08:12:45 PM

Quote from: gevens on August 14, 2009, 07:55:29 PM...I was wondering if anyone knows of anyone making a centerfire conversion block for a Sharps? Turning it into a 50-70 Gov't would be a hoot if it can be done for something significantly less than the cost of a repro centerfire Sharps carbine. In addition to the centefire breech block I'd probably have to sleeve the barrel as well.

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It will cost a fortune. Don't ask me how I know.

major · August 14, 2009, 09:36:25 PM

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Drilling out the nipple and the fire channel with a 1/8 inch drill usually solves the problem with blanks. But don't drill the inner cone as the walls are just too thin.
Terry

French Jack · August 15, 2009, 05:32:36 AM

On one of the other forums, BROW, I believe, there is a fellow that has a .54 percussion converted to fire cartridges. I don't know if it is a centerfire case, or if it is a brass case with a flash hole. The latter, I think. You might be able to get his posts in which he describes what is going on. I am sure that you could PM him and get more info as to what is done.

Patrick Henry Brown · August 15, 2009, 06:48:46 AM

In my experience, and I have shot Sharps for 20 years now -- everything from a Shiloh to an IAB, percussion to centerfire, the cost of what you propose in not worth it. Last year I sold a Pedersoli 1863 Sporting Rifle (45 cal percussion) and traded into a very nice Pedersoli 1874 Long Range Rifle in 45-90. Cost was a 1970's Navy Arms 1866 in 38 spl and $100 to boot. I then picked up an EMF (IAB) "1866" Sharps carbine in 45-70 for $500 off Gunsamerica. I love that carbine! It is reminiscent of the 1863 Shiloh I used to own and shoot in N-SSA. I thought about doing the same thing you propose with the Pedersoli I sold. In fact, I bought it because the previous owner had machined an insert for the chamber that allowed the use of cutdown 45-70 cases while retaining the percussion ignition. Problem was the extraction required a hook to remove the cartridge case from the chamber after firing. In theory, what you propose can be done, but I would either find another carbine in centerfire, or sell what you have and buy one. Just my $0.02 -- YMMV.

Arizona Trooper · August 15, 2009, 10:28:53 AM

On the Sharps ignition problem, drill the passage through the block. There is a screw on the left side of the block that closes off the passage. Use the biggest drill that will go down the hole without taking out the threads. Be careful to stop under the cone. If you go all the way through you'll have a problem. You may find the passage full of fouling. it's a common problem. DON'T drill out the cone (nipple) if you are planning to live fire it. If the cone hole is enlarged the hammer will blow back to half cock when fired live. I was the company armorer for the 4th Va. Cav back in Va., and fixed a lot of Sharps problems.

If you do the conversion to cartridge, Bobby Hoyt could sleeve your barrel to 50-70, just like Springfield did, but you would need a new CF breechblock and hammer. S&S use to have the conversion hinge pins and extractors. Frankly, by the time you're done, you could find a shootable original conversion for similar money and then you'd have a gun that will appreciate in price. They are good shooters, and a lot easier to live with than the percussion versions.

kurt250 · August 16, 2009, 03:36:06 PM

theres a replica 50 70 charpes carbine made by armi-sport. i got mine threw taylors. shoots 50/70 black powder woundfully. i think this will be a lot cheaper then getting the mod. done to your 54 iab. kurt250

gevens · August 17, 2009, 05:28:43 PM

Thanks to everyone that replied with your thoughts and recommendations. With regard to drilling out some of the pathway from the nipple to the chamber, I'll look into that further. I am aware of the problem with drilling out nipples and then live firing with Springfield muskets, etc. I suspected the same would apply to Sharps carbines. That is one of the reasons I have extra nipples for my 1842 and 1861 Springfields--one drilled out for re-enacting, and another that is kept to original dimensions in case I want to do any live firing. I just wasn't sure if just drilling out the nipple would be enough given the twisting pathway the flame has to take to reach the chamber.

It sounds like the consensus is rather than converting my current Sharps carbine, I should just get another one. Hey, I'm always looking for a good excuse to buy another gun! I will look into getting one in .50-70. I think that is just a neat cartridge--I've fired an original trapdoor musket in .50-70 and it was a lot of fun. I've already got an 1874 Sharps buffalo rifle (repro) in .45-70 which I use at my cowboy club's long range buffalo shoots--we have a full scale steel buffalo target and can get back about 400 yards and see if we can hit it. Hitting it isn't usually a problem--hitting the 18" X 18" kill zone at that range is! I probably need to upgrade my long range sights. While the ones I have work okay for elevation, the windage adjustment is kinda flaky and usually ends up being a guess.

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Tuolumne Lawman · August 18, 2009, 10:28:13 AM

When I used a Sharps for re-enacting, I had two cones ( nipples) One drilled mout for blanks and one unaltered for live fire. I also found that CCI musket caps were much hotter than RWS. With RWS I would still have issues, but CCI always went off.

gevens · August 19, 2009, 05:36:07 PM

I routinely use the RWS musket caps. My re-enacting group and several others that I know have had problems with the CCI musket caps, especially the copper ones. They tend to "spit" pieces of metal and the guys on either side of the shooter have ended up with cuts on their face. A piece of one of these musket caps barely missed hitting one guy I know in the eye just last year. As a result, we've banned the use of the CCI musket caps within our infantry battalion. This may not be as much of a concern for cavalry re-enactors since you tend to operate in a skirmish line where there is much more distance between the individuals on the line. In a standard infantry company formation you are standing shoulder-to-shoulder. The CCI percussion caps used on pistols don't have this problem. It appears to be limited to just pieces of the "ears" on the musket caps coming off. Thanks for the thoughts though.

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