Digital Scales

Bryan Austin · August 12, 2009, 06:31:35 PM

I have been searching the net for scales but It hurts my head trying to figure out what I really need.

Which, and least expensive, digital scale would you recommend for BP (Goex Products)?

I am currently using the Lee Double Disk 2.52 cc, with Goex Skirmish FFF. Sometimes it looks like there is more or less, or the results vary. If the hopper is full, it throws less, if the hopper is low, it throws more. I thought it would be the other way around but it ain't!

NOT FOR CAS USE!

Bryan Austin · August 12, 2009, 07:36:37 PM

Here is my typical load,
First pic shows powder "fluffed" from the hopper drop.

Second pic shows powder after it settled from tapping the side of the case.

Third pic shows 3/16th compression using the 200 Mav .44 with 2.52cc Skirmish FFF BP

Dalton Masterson · August 12, 2009, 09:32:36 PM

Hey Savvy, blackpowder is measured by volume, not by weight. I soldered a handle onto an old 45 case that I had cut down to the volume I needed. That is all you need really. Weight is not a real useful thing in the darkside.

I ended up going to the Lyman black powder measure, and it is very accurate in powder drops round to round.

As far as digital scales for my smokeless loads, I use the Cabelas one, which I got for xmas a few years back. Think it was around 100 dollars or so, but never asked.

DM

Fox Creek Kid · August 12, 2009, 11:01:30 PM

Quote from: Dalton Masterson on August 12, 2009, 09:32:36 PM
Hey Savvy, blackpowder is measured by volume, not by weight...Weight is not a real useful thing in the darkside...

I will humbly agree & disagree. Weight is of no consequence for pistol cartridges for CAS distances. For long range BPCR it is extremely important and Remington mentioned as such in their 1878 catalog. A difference of one grain will show up at 200 yds. and over. Again, for CAS shooting it is not important and you are wasting time drop tubing or using compression dies, etc. for CAS usage. Use a dipper and load the bullet. At ten yds. on a garage door sized target you'll never know.

Dalton Masterson · August 12, 2009, 11:24:23 PM

If you are weighing your blackpowder, you are also buying the same lot #s of powder, etc, as there are weight differences in powder lots.
As I am not a BPCR shooter, I will amend my statement to say CAS shooting.

DM

August · August 13, 2009, 12:13:22 AM

I use, and recommend, the RCBS 750 scale. It is extremely accurate and has a capacity great enough for sorting heavy BPCR boolits.

I weigh BPCR loads and find that often volume varies when weight is held constant. In other words, I believe that loading for precision with Holy Black requires a good scale.

Now, for CAS loads, I use dippers and could care less about the weight.

Hope this helps.

Bryan Austin · August 13, 2009, 05:45:24 AM

Quote from: Dalton Masterson on August 12, 2009, 09:32:36 PM
Hey Savvy, blackpowder is measured by volume, not by weight.

Wow, interesting but all that does is add more questions...lol

I edited my first post to omit CAS. My question is for general reloading and not for CAS.

Thanks Guys!!!

Bryan Austin · August 13, 2009, 05:48:46 AM

Oh and maybe that is why the slight variation, some drops weigh more than others. Probably one bad side to the cheep Skirmish.

However, I like the hopper on the turret press. I use to use a 38-40 case cause it was a tad smaller than the 44-40 but they are suppose to both hold 40....hmmmmmm

Jefro · August 13, 2009, 08:58:58 AM

Howdy Jack, I find my Dillon balance beam scales to be plenty accurate for my reloading needs. As for the volume and weight changing from lot to lot or brand, I have seen that happen. I use Schuentzen, the last batch I got I had to change the Mec bushing for shotshells because of the volume change. I also use Lee Pro Auto disk sometimes for my .38sp BP. The disk I have been using for years had to be enlarged for this last batch of BP to get the same 1/8'' compression. For 44/40 I only use about 35gr with 1/8'' compression for CAS. I'm sure the weight will vary for different brands to obtain the same volume. I haven't bought a set of electronic scales yet, but have been reading reviews for a few years. There is one brand from UniqueTek that seems to always stand out, the High-Precision and Compact. Good Luck.

High-Precision Electronic Powder Scale
Compact Electronic Powder Scale

Jefro

Noz · August 13, 2009, 09:21:37 AM

You won't have to worry about Skirmish after you finish what you have. Powder, inc. say Skirmish is no more.

Bryan Austin · August 13, 2009, 04:58:32 PM

Quote from: Noz on August 13, 2009, 09:21:37 AM
You won't have to worry about Skirmish after you finish what you have. Powder, inc. say Skirmish is no more.

I wonder why...must a been hurting regular Goex sells at $11 a lb

Dalton Masterson · August 13, 2009, 05:12:04 PM

Hey Savvy, I have had good luck with the KIK brand that they sell. Seems to be just as good as the Goex for our CAS stuff. Long range stuff might make a difference tho.
DM

44caliberkid · August 13, 2009, 09:11:07 PM

For pistol cartridges you don't need a scale, just fill the case to within an 1/8 of an inch from the top and seat a bullet. For precision long range rifle cartridges such as 45-70, you would need a scale. 38-40 and 44-40 modern brass will not hold 40 grains, that was in old balloon head cases which haven't been made for decades.
What calibers are you talking about?

Bryan Austin · August 14, 2009, 05:41:09 AM

Quote from: 44caliberkid on August 13, 2009, 09:11:07 PM
For pistol cartridges you don't need a scale, just fill the case to within an 1/8 of an inch from the top and seat a bullet. For precision long range rifle cartridges such as 45-70, you would need a scale. 38-40 and 44-40 modern brass will not hold 40 grains, that was in old balloon head cases which haven't been made for decades.
What calibers are you talking about?

Thanks Kid

Its not about the 40 gr but about what my 38 gr weighs.

Also, why weigh for the 45-70 if all you can do is stuff it full anyhow?

Dick Dastardly · August 14, 2009, 08:24:03 AM

When used for BPCR shooting out to 1000 yards, the 45-70 is a fine choice. But, when you are looking for any kind of performance that far out, you need every possible variable nailed down. That includes exact charge weight regardless of the powder chosen. So, yes, weight does matter way out there. For CAS distances you will not see any appreciable difference between thrown and weighed charges.

I've been loading the fine 38WCF cartridge and find that it is a fine choice for SASS shooting. It's a very good balance between power and recoil and yet a true "big bore" contender.

The Big Lube® 38-40 190 grain RNFP bullet is designed for exactly that mission in that gun.

DD-DLoS

Bryan Austin · August 14, 2009, 08:55:52 AM

BUt I thought 70 grs of BP no matter the weight is all you can get in those things, just like xx grs in the 44-40

Paladin UK · August 14, 2009, 01:34:17 PM

Ho pards......
Iffn ya dont mind yer scales NOT havin RCBS or the like printed on em.........
These are jest fine and a whole lot cheaper!!

El Cheapo Scales..

Paladin (Whats reel careful with his pennies

) UK

Springfield Slim · August 14, 2009, 01:57:41 PM

The volume(and thus weight) will vary with different bullets. A 535 grain bullet is going to take up much more room in the case than a 350 grain bullet when loading 45-70. Loading BP is simple, but it isn't THAT simple. Skirmish powder is the cheapest powder out there, and as such it probably has the least consistency grain to grain. Try a better powder and see how your measure works. But as long as the volume doesn't vary enough to leave an air space behind the bullet it should work fine for our purposes.

Bryan Austin · August 14, 2009, 03:43:36 PM

Quote from: Springfield Slim on August 14, 2009, 01:57:41 PM
The volume(and thus weight) will vary with different bullets. A 535 grain bullet is going to take up much more room in the case than a 350 grain bullet when loading 45-70

Ah Ha, I forgot about that one!!!!

QuoteSkirmish powder is the cheapest powder out there, and as such it probably has the least consistency grain to grain.

Exactly why I was asking and why I was curious and wanted to play with it and the scales. Notwithstanding CAS loads, I'd like to try this say with about 35 grains by weight and see if I can get more consistency in accuracy than by simply stuffing them with 38gr.

Thanks Guys!!!

Jefro · August 14, 2009, 03:56:36 PM

Quote from: Savvy Jack on August 14, 2009, 08:55:52 AM
BUt I thought 70 grs of BP no matter the weight is all you can get in those things, just like xx grs in the 44-40

70gr of BP weighs 70gr no matter what name brand. However 70gr of one brand may take up much more volume (or less) than another brand. I normally use Schuetzen, but I just aquired a couple of lbs of old Goex from a pard. When I went to load some shoot shells the Goex weighed 3gr less for the same volume as Schuetzen. To the best of my knowledge todays modern 44/40 case holds approx. 2.2cc (or about 35gr) of BP with a 1/16'' to 1/8'' compression. It's all about the volume (CCs), weight (grains) is just an approx reference as far as I'm concerned. Check out DJ's photos in the Dark Arts.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,18257.0.html

Jefro