44-40 Nickle Plated Brass

[Bryan Austin]

Any advantages?

[Doc O]

I've used them in 38 S&W but don't find any advantage other them they look pretty.

Doc

[Capt. Montgomery Little]

Use them all the time. Advantage: easier loading due to stronger case mouth and they clean up easier when using BP or Subs. Have had some tell me that they won't reload as long due to nickel being brittle but have reloaded at least 6 times and no signs of fatigue. Yep, they are purty to boot.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I can't imagine that nickel plating will make a differencein how strong the case mouth is, the plating is so thin.

In my experience, nickel plated cases do tend to split more often than straight brass cases. It has to do with the way the plating baths are maintained when the brass is plated. If the baths are not up to snuff, the underlying brass can be weakened by a process called hydrogen embrittlement. If the baths were up to snuff, there is no problem. I used to load up a lot of nickel plated brass in 45 Colt, and I used to get one or two splits every few hundred rounds, which is more than I usually experience with straight brass rounds. My nickel plated 38 Sp rounds also tend to split a bit more often too.

If you have them, go ahead and use them. If you get some splits, just throw away the split ones. But my experience has taught me not to buy nickel plated brass anymore.

[Mako]

Howdy

I can't imagine that nickel plating will make a differencein how strong the case mouth is, the plating is so thin.

In my experience, nickel plated cases do tend to split more often than straight brass cases. It has to do with the way the plating baths are maintained when the brass is plated. If the baths are not up to snuff, the underlying brass can be weakened by a process called hydrogen embrittlement. If the baths were up to snuff, there is no problem. I used to load up a lot of nickel plated brass in 45 Colt, and I used to get one or two splits every few hundred rounds, which is more than I usually experience with straight brass rounds. My nickel plated 38 Sp rounds also tend to split a bit more often too.


If you have them, go ahead and use them. If you get some splits, just throw away the split ones. But my experience has taught me not to buy nickel plated brass anymore.

Driftwood,

Brass is not prone to Hydrogen embrittlement, you are confusing it with steel.  This is a common problem with pickling baths used before plating steel.  Don't confuse the process with the material.

High-strength and low-alloy Steels, Nickel, Nickel Alloys and Titanium alloys are most susceptible. Steel with an ultimate tensile strength of less than 950 MPa or hardness of less than 30 HRC are not generally considered susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement.  Brass is not considered susceptible.  There are two mechanisms that cause Hydrogen Embrittlement:
1.   Hydrogen embrittlement would occur in Copper alloys or in Zinc alloys when oxide particles found dispersed throughout the microstructure react with hydrogen producing water. Unlike "pure copper"  Brass does not contain these particles so it is not susceptible to this form of attack. 

2.   The mechanism for embrittlement in Steels, Nickel Alloys  and Titanium Alloys starts with lone hydrogen atoms diffusing through the metal.  The elevated solubility of hydrogen allows hydrogen to diffuse into the metal. When these hydrogen atoms re-combine in minuscule voids of the metal matrix to form hydrogen molecules, they create pressure from inside the cavity they are in. This pressure can increase to levels where the metal has reduced ductility and tensile strength up to the point where it cracks open this is known as hydrogen induced cracking.  Brass does not share these tendencies with the above mention material types.


Now stress corrosion cracking or season cracking in brass is common in alloys containing more than 15% zinc exposed to ammonium solutions and mercury compounds.  It is a phenomena which relies on the two things its name implies, residual stress and a corrosive environment.  Another form of attack is called dezincification which is more common in duplex brasses although not confined to them.  This is why we warn people not to use Ammonia containing cleaners on brass cases.

The reason Nickle cases crack is because the Nickel plating cracks, this creates a stress raiser at the junction to the the underlying substrate.  If you look a Nickle plate brass you will find micro cracks in the plating and they will expand.  You may find some that have cracks only through the plating and not propagating into the underlying brass.  The cracks begin on the Nickel surface not on the underlying substrate.  This is the opposite of hydrogen embrittlement which begins inside of the metal matrix.

Does the Nickel plating crack because of hydrogen embrittlement?  I'd have to argue against it, I have never seen any white papers or evidence to support that mechanism.  The pre-plating solutions that supply the quantities of free hydrogen atoms necessary for hydrogen infusion happen well before the nickel plating bath.  Now if you were talking about Nickel plated Nickel that would be a different story, the Nickel substrate would be subjected to the pre-plating baths (acid baths) that contain the diffusible hydrogen atom concentrations.

So in short, Nickel plated brass cracks because the nickel coating is hard and does not elastically deform like the underlying substrate does.  The Nickel develops cracks and the brass now has more stress applied where it is "unsupported" by the Nickel skin surrounding it.  It work hardens in these areas and subsequently cracks.

Regards,
Mako

[Driftwood Johnson]

So what do you do for a living?

I still ain't gonna buy any nickel coated brass, my experience is that it splits more often than just plain brass.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Another bad note for nickel plated cases is that ceramic media will wear blotches in the plating.

[Bryan Austin]

I obtained a few hundred free of cost. Upon inspection all but about a hundred ah splits. Most splits were very small but yet splits. All but about 50 the plating was wearing off. I'd say reloaded many times. I already reloaded some but I plan on shooting them and trashing the brass. I feal they may have out lasted themselves.

Anyway, I was entertaining the thought of purchasing 50 or so from Starline for my 44-40 defense loads. Very hard to seat the MJ bullet straight enough to slide in the chamber of my revolver. Full case of BP helps.

[Deadeye Dick]

I don't use nickel brass cause I heard the silver plating can flake off and scratch your dies. Of course if you're using carbide dies, then this would not me a problem. Now I have another reason not to use it - splits!

Deadeye Dick

[Delmonico]

So what do you do for a living?

I still ain't gonna buy any nickel coated brass, my experience is that it splits more often than just plain brass.

Any fancy big words aside, my experience with nickel plated case is right there with Driftwoods, they split more often, don't matter id they are 38, 357, 44 mag, 243, 22-250 and most likely a caliber or two I've forgot.  Bottom line I've never got near the life out of them.

[Mako]

So what do you do for a living?

I still ain't gonna buy any nickel coated brass, my experience is that it splits more often than just plain brass.

Driftwood,
To answer your question, I'm a Mechanical Engineer.

I agree Nickel Brass does split sooner and more often.  I tend to use brass as well, but I load some of my daughters ammo in nickel, it helps keep it separated from mine.  I have always preferred brass for any BP because I can maintain it through abrasive finishing.  I used to shoot a lot of .38 Super nickel plated brass from a sponsor, I had to carefully sort fired brass which I only used in practice to watch for cracks.  All matches were shot with virgin brass.

I'm curious who told you that splits on Nickel plated cases were the result  of the plating chemistry not being maintained well?

As far as my answer to your post goes, I was just saying is that it's not Hydrogen Embrittlement or HIC; it's also not the result of the plating process, but the plating itself that causes the problem.  All brass cases will finally work harden and crack unless they are re-annealed at some point.  Pistol brass that we use see the low pressures and will last a long time and take a long time to work harden unless they are nickel plated.  You can anneal Nickel as well but you have to heat it to about 900°C (1652°F) which is almost exactly the melting point of brass.  Not really very practical  ...

Regards,
Mako

[Wolfgang]

I obtained a few hundred free of cost. Upon inspection all but about a hundred ah splits. Most splits were very small but yet splits. All but about 50 the plating was wearing off. I'd say reloaded many times. I already reloaded some but I plan on shooting them and trashing the brass. I feal they may have out lasted themselves.

Anyway, I was entertaining the thought of purchasing 50 or so from Starline for my 44-40 defense loads. Very hard to seat the MJ bullet straight enough to slide in the chamber of my revolver. Full case of BP helps.

You sure are having a LOT OF FUN . . . ain't ya !   

[Cuts Crooked]

Me? I'm jist a big dumb Irish cop! So I have nothing to base my conjecture on, but I kinda thought the explaination fer why nickle plated brass splits faster was simple...dissimilar metals, expand/contract at different rates. Kinda like: brass is cooling faster than the the nickle plate that's bonded to it, so it's stressed more by the nickle pulling at it while it tries to contract faster than the nickle afteer firing..............vice versa at the moment of firing, when it's trying to expand faster.......over the long haul this would cause splits sooner than ca'triges maded with only one metal alloy involved?

Stupid thinking?

[Delmonico]

Me? I'm jist a big dumb Irish cop! So I have nothing to base my conjecture on, but I kinda thought the explaination fer why nickle plated brass splits faster was simple...dissimilar metals, expand/contract at different rates. Kinda like: brass is cooling faster than the the nickle plate that's bonded to it, so it's stressed more by the nickle pulling at it while it tries to contract faster than the nickle afteer firing..............vice versa at the moment of firing, when it's trying to expand faster.......over the long haul this would cause splits sooner than ca'triges maded with only one metal alloy involved?

Stupid thinking?

Yep, you forgot the $10 words.   Never thought why it does, just know it does and won't spend the extra for brass that don't last as long.

[Bryan Austin]

You sure are having a LOT OF FUN . . . ain't ya !   

I sold my airplane project because it was an addiction. I think I found another addiction! 

[Mako]

Me? I'm jist a big dumb Irish cop! So I have nothing to base my conjecture on, but I kinda thought the explaination fer why nickle plated brass splits faster was simple...dissimilar metals, expand/contract at different rates. Kinda like: brass is cooling faster than the the nickle plate that's bonded to it, so it's stressed more by the nickle pulling at it while it tries to contract faster than the nickle afteer firing..............vice versa at the moment of firing, when it's trying to expand faster.......over the long haul this would cause splits sooner than ca'triges maded with only one metal alloy involved?

Stupid thinking?

Cuts,
Not stupid thinking, it actually is because the materials are different.  Not a bad conjecture on your part.  But, the materials lose heat at about the same rate at the thickness we are talking about. The temperature flux is a very short path and the substrate (the Brass) acts as the primary thermal body.

It's not the heat that does it, it's the hardness differential and the modulus of elasticity and where the plastic range of the material intersects the elastic limit of the material.  As I said above the reason it fails is because the plating fails first, then you get an area where the stress in concentrated.

We all know Nickle plated brass doesn't last as long, I was just explaining why.

~Mako

[Noz]

My only experience with nickle cases is with 41 mag cases with a whole bunch of W296 under 230 LBT bullets. After about 3 loadings the nickle started to peel off in large flakes. Never saw the need to repeat the experience.

[Fingers McGee]

I use Starline nickel 44-40 cases with BP, Pinnacle and T7.

Pluses:  They're easier to clean, don't tarnish/stain like brass, and are easier to see in the grass

Minuses:  Split easier than brass (dont get as many reloads), cost more.

Insert Quote
My only experience with nickle cases is with 41 mag cases with a whole bunch of W296 under 230 LBT bullets. After about 3 loadings the nickle started to peel off in large flakes. Never saw the need to repeat the experience.

I had the same experience with Winchester nickel 45Colt cases; but have not had a Starline nickel 44-40 case flake yet.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

       I agree with Driftwood and Delmonico, it's been my experience to, the nickel splits much easier, and the bottom line is you don't get as many reloads out of them.

                                            Regards

                                         tEN wOLVES

      Driftwood, I love my Hornady LnL AP 

[Montana Slim]

Genrally agree on nickle-plated brass not lasting as long....at least that was my experience eith 45-70.

On the other hand I have a thousand or so .38 spl (Nickled) and .357 Mag (Nickled) that have been loaded a dozen times or more before a split....similar to brass. I also have a few .44-40 (Nickled) that have held up exceptionally well.

Regards,
Slim