S&W 1881 1st Model DA / Question

[Dedreckoning]

I shoot SASS, so I really don't know this one.  Is it true that NCOWS allows period DA's to be shot?  I presume they'd have to be shot single action?

I have an 1881 that has just been gone over thoroughly by a smith.  I've shot a couple of boxes of GOEX and APP 44's through it.  It is a kick to shoot.  And dead accurate. I'll probably shoot it with one of my Schofields at a local informal match sometime. I know it can last the match without cleaning.  I wouldn't want to make it a regular thing, though.  The sights are pure late 19th century S&W, i.e. small and skinny.  Not good for the over 40 crowd.

Wish I had some provenance on this gun.  It has 4 neatly incised notches at the bottom of the left grip.  Since notches got carved for different events (targets), it'd be real interesting to know what they mean.   

[St. George]

Of course NCOWS allows period Double Actions to be shot - 'and' in Double Action!

Give 'em a try - you'll enjoy the experience.

As to regular shooting of an original piece - remember that the metallurgy is primarily 'iron' - not steel.

Keep your cartridges loaded to factory standard for the era and don't look for speed, unless you enjoy hunting for parts.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Short Knife Johnson]

Oh good, I'm not the ONLY one to run into this problem.  This spring I fell into a Merwin Hulbert 7 shot Pocket Army double action in .32 MH.  The guy didn't really know what he had on his hands, and neither did I until I got it for a steal of a price that still astounds me.  It looks and functions (save for a heavy trigger pull) like new.  At the last shoot of the year, one of the RO's complained about me shooting this mouse gun in DA mode.  It's not my primary gun, just one I like to shoot in one or two stages to mix things up.  Having to tranfer to it from my Uberti Schofield, Colt SAA or Pietta SAA repro makes it interesting.  Also drives whomever is at the loading bench crazy with the recessed cylinder and high capacity.  It makes the power factor with BP loads, but the more senior shooters were telling me that we (Sasakatchewan Association of Wild West Shooters) follow SASS rules.  Fair enough I thought, and put the gun away under protest.  Not wanting to start a scene even though most of the other shooters of my posse were backing me on this one.  So I checked the SASS handbook online front to back and could find nothing on DA usage.  When I called them in California, the lady I talked to over the crappiest phone line I've ever had, didn't really seem to understand what I was saying.  Her only reply was "Well it's the Single Action Shooting Society, so everything must be shot single action."  I took the advice of Sam Clements and decided not to argue with an idiot on fear of not knowing who would be so perceived.  Next shoot come spring, I might have to point out that particular RO's habit of slam-firing his '97 Winchester pump.  Am I right or wrong is what I need to know.  If I'm wrong, I guess I'll just wear my beloved little Merwin as a decoration then.

[St. George]

Or - you could start up an NCOWS posse...

Take a look at the NCOWS forum and see what's what.

One word, though - the metallurgy of the Merwin, Hulberts left a lot to be desired, so shoot 'only' BP loads in it - and factory pressure or a little less.

Do that, and you should be able to enjoy it for many years to come.

Use smokeless to any real degree, and you 'do' have a decoration...

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Short Knife Johnson]

Oh no. never had any intention to shoot the smokeless in it.  I've done some checking and talked to a few experts who placed the date of manufacture roughly late January to early Febuary of 1883.  MH went broke before smokeless was available in North America, so there is no dispute.  The fit and finish is what captivates me, and anyone I hand it over to.   

I think what hacked me off the most is that they had the gall to say that shooting it DA is "not authentic to the period."  I've seen period advertising for Colt, S&W, and others that extolls the virtues of the "automatic self-cocking triggers."  On the spot I listed the DAs of the time from the LeMat to the 1877 Colts, Forehand & Wadsworth, Tranters and so on.  I found it ridiculous that someone so armed would not utilize such a feature back then.  I also pointed out that cocking the SA revolver with the off hand and shooting two handed was not really period either, but everyone but me does it and I seemed to stay in the middle of the pack.  Not that I was there in the day, but from all accounts and artwork I've seen, it's one hand per gun, and the thumb cocking the hammer lives next door to the finger touching the trigger. 

[Montana Slim]

I've mentioned before that I occasionally shoot a S&W 1881 (.44 Russian) at SASS monthly matches...there have been a few raised eyebrows, but no real issues. I do fire it in DA, duelist style, with BP loads. Last outing I paired it with my 44-40 SAA and "knocked the teeth outta the steel cowboys", acording to one witness.

Shooting the big Smith in DA is quite the advantage, if the targets are really big and really close....but then you have to deal with the fine sights, tiny grip and rather robust DA trigger pull. Well, maybe it isn't the gamer-gun I led you to believe 

Folks at my clubs realize we don't shoot for cash & big prizes....this is for fun....It might help they already know I'm a bit off-center as I'm the long-time BP shooter at our clubs. (shhh, like to think I've started the recent craze of black-powder "shootists").

Hope your local pards mellow (like mine already are).
Regards,
Slim

[Short Knife Johnson]

Yeah, I think most of them were OK with the DA play, just two RO's who are real gamers.  I shoot one handed with both the left and right hands.  Due to having to shoot with a bizarre physical disability(which is getting better), I sometimes have to two hand my right hand gun.  I just got an Uberti Schofield in .44 WCF so the weight of the piece takes out the punishment.  My Colt SAA in .357 and my also newly aquired Pietta SAA cone in .45 are fired left hand only because they shoot dead to point of aim when held in the left.  I know a few of the folks there just enjoy me having that cute little MH out there and most of them have never heard of them until they saw mine.  It is fired right handed.  My '92 Winchester is fired right handed, but I can't snug the butt to my shoulder, so it gets pinched between my cheek and upper arm.  Shotguns are fired left.  I've been told it's quite the confusing show when the timer beeps.  Besides, being able to shoot left & right gives me a leg up on those who have to transfer guns hand to hand.  And in case anyone is wondering, for my BPCR Sillhouette shooting, it's all done lefty, but I have enough length of pull to shoot chickens at 200m standing right handed - finally 3 1/2 years later.  The surprisingly hard part wasn't teaching the hand to do it's thing, but my eye.

[John Smith]

Short Knife, you should read page 1 of the SASS Shooters Handbook:

Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a multifaceted amateur shooting sport in which contestants
compete with firearms typical of those used in the taming of the Old West: single action
revolvers; lever action rifles; and side by side double barreled, pre-1899 pump, or lever action
shotguns. The shooting competition is staged in a unique, characterized, Old West style.

Just curious, why do you consider ROs that enforce SASS rules "gamers"?

[Dr. Bob]

JS,

Since numerous double action revolvers were available in the Old West, it would be logical to allow their use in "shooting competition is staged in a unique, characterized, Old West style."  But the name of the organizations is the SINGLE Action Shooting Society.

[Montana Slim]

JS,

Since numerous double action revolvers were available in the Old West, it would be logical to allow their use in "shooting competition is staged in a unique, characterized, Old West style."  But the name of the organizations is the SINGLE Action Shooting Society.

So why they always use two revolvers ??.....

...........Just couldn't help myself 

Regards,
Slim

[Short Knife Johnson]

That's a good find Slim.  A S&W 1881 DA large bore.  Since I posted, I found myself a DA Forehand & Wadsworth in .32 as well that I would like to buy.  Just waiting to hear back from the seller.  What I meant by the "gamer" crack is the RO's that were giving me trouble tend to like bending the rules their way when it suits them.  The next step would be to send their Rugers away to get Magna Ported.  I think that is DA revolvers were that much af an issue, then there should be a rule

The excerpt John Smith quoted says "typical of those used."  I'd say an original DA would be considered typical.  Also under the section "Firearms Covenants" reads "Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 they depict."  But nowhere in the manual did I find the rule that every piece must be fired by cocking the hammer and then depressing the trigger. 

There you go.  Now I sound like the shooters from Alberta.  The Canadian crowd might know what I mean by that.

[John Smith]

Cause they haven't figured out how to carry 3.  On the other hand, with the growing popularity of the "Wild Bunch" matches, they could be the Semi Automatic Shooting Society.  I think the biggest problem about allowing DA revolvers would be the name Single And Double Action Shooting Society, or SADASS.

You left out the part that specifically states single action revolvers, and magna porting the barrels isn't legal either:  ANY EXTERNAL MODIFICATION TO ANY FIREARM NOT SPECIFICALLY
REFERENCED IN THIS HANDBOOK IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED!

Also would constitute an "external modification" which also isn't allowed.  Throughout the manual, ROI & ROII handbooks there is constant mention of Single Action revolvers.  If you want to shoot your DA revolver in CAS, look into NCOWS, they have a section on this site, good bunch of pards...

[Short Knife Johnson]

I know, I was being a smarty-pants. 

[Dr. Bob]

Heck, I take a Smart A** pill every day when I get up!  ALWAYS works!!