Loading .44-40, Dillon and RCBS Cowboy Dies

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Howdy,

I recently switched from .45 LC to .44-40 and I have some major reloading on the horizon. I'm curious to know about other folks' experiences, 'specially if yer gonna do it like me. What's your system?

I have a Dillon 550B and I bought a 3 die set of the RCBS Cowboys.  It looks like I'll use the RCBS sizer/decapper die on stage one, the Dillon powder die and funnel on stage two, and the RCBS seater/crimper on stage three. Stage four will be empty.  I won't need the RCBS expander die.  Some questions:

At what stage do you wipe off the case lube?  Right after sizing, before charging with primer, after? At the end after finishing the round?

Is the Dillon crimp die better than the RCBS seater/crimp?

Do you load on a single stage? That's an option for me, as that's what I use for BPCR loads.  But it seems like it would take a year and a day to load up enough rounds for the .44-40 pistols.

What about powder loads? I'll probably use Trailboss since that's what I got in the shed, and I'll probably use the same throw as with my .45's, about 5.9 grains, give or take a 10th.  And a 200 grain bullet.  A lot of the folks in my club use Clays, they say it burns cleaner. Haven't tried it yet but I have some kickin' around.

[Kid Sopris]

I don't know if I will be of any help, but here it goes. I have loaded, studied the effects, documented and published articles on Loading the 44-40. It as been my cartridge of choice since 1980.

I use a Dillon, (EXCELLENT MACHINE, by the way), however I use Redding dies. (Redding makes the dies for Dillon). Over the years I found that some Manufacturers dies do not adhere to the strict tolerances needed for this cartridge. (Mileage will differ with others).

I separately spray with Dillon lube and on a SINGLE STAGE RCBE Rock Chucker, I resize and deprime the fired cases and toss into a tumbler. (Dillon by the way). after tumbling the cases come out bright, shiny and clean. Primer pockets are cleaned; this is to prevent build up which could produce a high primer.

Before beginning the loading process I double check ALL cases in a L.E. Wilson case length gauge to insure proper length and that the neck was sized correctly.


If you have all that done correctly, the rest of the loading process is very easy, presuming of course that you expand the case correctly , Seat the primer properly and use the correct size Bullet.

Some folks will want to use .429 or .430 diameter bullets and in order for those to chamber correctly the cases MUST be trimmed back farther. Some folks also add a Lee Crimp die, but I have NEVER needed to do that when using bullets of .427 or .428 diameter. WINCHESTER CASES and STAR cases handle the .428 better than REMINGTON which has a thicker case.

I use IMR PB Powder and I get clean ignition with my Winchester primers, less debris and less cartridge variation from shot to shot; (AS Chronographed).

There are other great Powder, primer, bullet combinations, experiment to see what works best for you. Follow a strict routine and DON'T get in a hurry. The 44-40 is not as forgivable when reloading as straight wall cases.

Should you want loading data you may email me privately and I will forward past experiment copies. UNDERSTAND that the data does come with the STANDARD warning and disclaimers.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks, Kid, for the excellent advice!  I just sent an email so I can pick your brain some more.  Can't wait to make some bullets and try 'em out!   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have been loading and shooting 44-40 as my main match CAS rifle load for around 10 years now. I use a standard RCBS die set, not the fancy cowboy dies. Once I figured out what I was doing I have done fine with the RCBS dies, never saw the need for the cowboy dies. I also have an old set of Lachmiller dies that I picked up cheap at a white elephant table and I use the seating/crimp die when I single stage some Smokeless loads so I don't have to reset my RCBS dies.

My standard Smokeless load for 44-40 was 7.5 grains  of Unique under a 200 grain lead RNFP bullet. These days I usually load it with 2.2CC of Schuetzen FFg under a 200 grain Mav-Dutchman Big Lube bullet lubed with SPG. If you are going to use Trailboss, or Clays, please go to the Hodgodn website and look up the proper load for your bullet weight. Do not assume you can use the same load as 45 Colt. Looking up the correct data is very easy.

I prefer Winchester brass, as it is the thinnest at the neck, only about .007 thick. The thinner the brass at the neck, the more forgiving it will be if you are forced to use larger diameter bullets. But I have every brand of 44-40 brass under the sun in my 'other brands' collection. Yes, those thin necks will crumlple if you slam them into the bottom of a sizing die, so go carefully. You are going to get a lot of answers that you must seat and crimp bullets separately in 44-40 to avoid crumpled necks. I always seat and crimp in one step, I am just very careful with my die settings. So much for having to seat and crimp in separate steps.

I use Hornady One Shot spray case lube. A quick squirt of 50 cases in a loading block is all that is needed. Be careful, too much lube will cause dents on your brass because drops of liquid cannot be compressed. In truth, when sizing brand new Winchester 44-40 brass the very first time, I do not use any case lube at all, because my die barely touches the case. Your mileage may very. I wipe the lube off after the rounds are completed.

I started out loading 44-40 on my Lyman Spartan single stage press, but these days I do it on my Hornady Lock & Load AP progressive press. It does not matter what the press is, the progressive is just faster. I have a Black Powder measure set up on my press which dumps 2.2CC of FFg into the cases. I do not put BP in regular Smokeless powder measures.

As far as bullet diameter, you will do best if you slug your bore. Ideally, lead bullets should be .001 over groove diameter size. With revolvers, chamber throat diameter also enters into the equation. Kid Sopris is correct about large diameter bullets. If you have a modern made firearm, chances are the groove diameter is .429. Originally, groove diameter for 44-40 was set at .427, as opposed to .429 for 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Magnum. But these days many manufacturers use .429 44 Mag/44 Special barrels. Caution must be excercised if one is loading .429 or .430 bullets in thin walled brass like 44-40. Tight chambers may make it difficult to chamber such bullets. Also, the increased friction of seating the slightly larger diameter bullets can lead to crumpling the neck down below the bullet. In such cases it is often adviseable to use an expander plug from a 44 Mag/44 Special die set, as it will be a couple of thousandths larger in diameter, and will open the case mouths up slightly more, reducing friction as the bullet is seated.

I have three rifles with .427 barrels, a Winchester Model 1892, a Marlin Model 1894 and a Uberti made 1873. I always used .427 bullets in these guns with good results. However my Henry has a .429 barrel, so I have had to comprimise. I now load all my 44-40 ammo with bullets sized to .428 (I cast and size my own BP bullets). Even though this size is technically a little bit undersized for the Henry barrel, it shoots fine for CAS and will chamber and shoot well in the other three rifles.

[clehfeldt]

JDY,
Mostly great advice ya got so far. The only thing I suggest is to use "One Shot" Lube and don't worry about removing it.
Clean your brass in the vibrator, use the One Shot as directed and run them throught the reloader.
Carlos

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks Driftwood and Carlos!

Driftwood, thanks for the thorough explanation. Very good to know.  I've heard about the ranges in barrel dia. before, not sure where my barrels line up (Uberti Win. 1873 model short rifle, USFA Rodeo pistolas. You're right, I gotta get off my butt and slug the barrels.  (I've slugged most of my other guns, just haven't got around to these, yet.) I'm using Starline brass and whatever LP primers I have sittin' around.

The first batch of bullets I'm loading are Desperado .428's. I figured that size would probably be pretty close to my barrels, and if they were a little small, they're also pretty soft, 20:1, so they'd pump up a little. 

By the way, just to reassure you--my comment about using the same load of Trail Boss for .45 LC and .44-40 was based on IMR's load data.  They recommend the same load for both calibers.  Soon as I run out of the TB I'm gonna try some of ya'll's suggestions, too.  Speaking of which:  Thanks for the black powder info.  That's one of the main reasons I switched calibers--I plan on ridding myself of this despicable dependency on the new-fangled stuff.  I have several pounds of 3F lying around but not 2F.  Your load suggestions are a great justification for buying some more powder. 

--------------------
(a little later)
I just set up the press and loaded a few test cartridges.  Went pretty smooth, except... I first tried using my Lee single stage to size.  I looked up the case holder number and made sure I had the right one. Lubed up the shell, let it sit for a spell.  Slid it into the die and pulled and...Dammit!!! the shell holder ain't right--it's too loose. The shell slid right out of the holder, stuck in the damn die. I was thinkin' I'd hate to scratch up this brand new die! Well, I got it out okay. Then I moved everything over to the Dillon, where I shoulda been in the 1st place.
I don't know if Lee made a mistake in assigning the case holder or what....beware, folks, watch out for #14's!