Uberti .44 Revolving Carbine Project

bedbugbilly · January 17, 2010, 07:49:56 PM

Whew! You fellers have given me so much good information that my head is a twirling!

Is interesting reading and lots of good info to consider. I don't know what my barrel blank bore measures out at - it's in Michigan and I'm out here on the frontier in AZ for the winter so will have to wait till I get back there in the spring. It's a Ray barrel blank (I'm pretty sure anyway) that I picked up down at Friendship at the Nationals one time - I sort of made a habit of collectin' barrels when I could get them cheap 'cause I knew they'd never go down in price, only up!

Wolfgangs's comment on reaming the Remy cylinder makes sense and that's one thing i was thinking of - that the wall thickness isn't real great. That brings up another question - and I'm not thinking about doing it so don't give it a thought - I'm just wondering. Has anyone ever seen an original (Remy or Colt) - and I'm talking cap and ball, not cartridge - that has ever had the barrel bored and re-sleeved or the cylinder re-sleeved (Doesn't seem like there would be enough wall thinckness on the cylinder)? It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense to do it since you could probaby pick up another .36 or .44 if your piece was worn out - but then again, in reality, a 44 or a 36 could be done (it seems like anyway) and changed to another smaller caliber - like a 40 or even a 32? As I said, I'm not thinking of doing it but am curious if anyone has ever seen anything like that?

Dusty Morningwood · January 18, 2010, 09:49:18 AM

Quote from: bedbugbilly on January 17, 2010, 07:49:56 PM

Has anyone ever seen an original (Remy or Colt) - and I'm talking cap and ball, not cartridge - that has ever had the barrel bored and re-sleeved or the cylinder re-sleeved (Doesn't seem like there would be enough wall thinckness on the cylinder)? It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense to do it since you could probaby pick up another .36 or .44 if your piece was worn out - but then again, in reality, a 44 or a 36 could be done (it seems like anyway) and changed to another smaller caliber - like a 40 or even a 32? As I said, I'm not thinking of doing it but am curious if anyone has ever seen anything like that?

Saw an 1860 Army conversion that had been sleeved to .22 RF. What a waste!!

Wolfgang · January 18, 2010, 10:48:19 AM

Quote from: Dusty Morningwood on January 18, 2010, 09:49:18 AM
Saw an 1860 Army conversion that had been sleeved to .22 RF. What a waste!!

Some people do really silly stuff . . .

$:-\$

Flint · January 18, 2010, 04:52:22 PM

Hoof Hearted. Normally, the longer the bullet is, the faster the twist has to be to gyro stablize. The reason you spin a football when you throw it. Roundballs require little twist, and actually, some old flintlocks had straight grooves.

In my R&D and Kirst conversions I figure the hollowbase wadcutter, even though too long for the 36 Navy twist, will hold some stability from the "arrowhead" weight of the nose. At some point downrange, they will tumble. The twist on the Italian Navy is 1:32, and the twist for a 38 Special is 1:16.

Hoof Hearted · January 18, 2010, 06:33:25 PM

Quote from: Flint on January 18, 2010, 04:52:22 PM
Hoof Hearted. Normally, the longer the bullet is, the faster the twist has to be to gyro stablize. The reason you spin a football when you throw it. Roundballs require little twist, and actually, some old flintlocks had straight grooves.

In my R&D and Kirst conversions I figure the hollowbase wadcutter, even though too long for the 36 Navy twist, will hold some stability from the "arrowhead" weight of the nose. At some point downrange, they will tumble. The twist on the Italian Navy is 1:32, and the twist for a 38 Special is 1:16.

I knew that, did I give you the impression I didn't?

I also know that fouling comes into play in repeating, rifle length barrels shooting Black Powder.
A few years back I played this one out with a 44 caliber express rifle. The 1 in 20" twist worked out SOOO much better than the slower twist barrels.

The barrel that Dusty was looking at was 1 in 32 (or 36) and I believe this to be too slow for a longer barrel.
Marlin uses 1 in 20 for their large caliber rifles.

MMK

Dusty Morningwood · January 19, 2010, 10:34:18 AM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 18, 2010, 06:33:25 PM
The barrel that Dusty was looking at was 1 in 32 (or 36) and I believe this to be too slow for a longer barrel.
Marlin uses 1 in 20 for their large caliber rifles.

MMK

What is the twist in Uberti 66 and 73 rifles and carbines?

Flint · January 19, 2010, 03:50:36 PM

DGW says the twist on the Henry/66/73 in 44-40 is 1:36. The twist on the Remington Revolving Carbine is 1:38.

Hoof Hearted · January 27, 2010, 04:42:46 PM

Dusty

I spent quite a bit of time going over twist rates with Jesse Ocampaugh yesterday. Jesse rebores rifle barrels and has quite a bit of experience. I am not rying to tell you what rate of twist to choose (and really either will work), I was just trying to explain my preference and why I have decided on that rate. It appears shorter barrels with less case capacity (read that pistol calibers) are getting slower twist rates from the Italians and longer barrels using larger case capacities are getting slightly faster twist rates here in the states. Of course factors like bullet length (ie; weight) case capacities, bullet construction and powder type used all weigh in on those decisions. This is starting to sound like a "John Boy" post regarding fouling on the other forum..................

Moving on;
I have accumulated a lot of pictures of Remington Carbines (to suplement the info that is on the Remington Collectors site) and will gladly share this info with you. It is interesting to note the different conversion types, barrel lengths and sight appointments.

Yer pard
HH

Dusty Morningwood · January 27, 2010, 04:59:01 PM

Understood, HH. I guess I am just trying to see what off the shelf products can be used to make a reasonable facsimile of a Remington revolving rifle. As I statedin the original post I could technically stand pat, since there is an original RRR in .45 Colt with an 18" barrel, but where's the fun in that!

Rolling Stone · February 02, 2010, 08:17:01 PM

Hey guys,
I have just been measuring some rifle barrels from my safe. Puma hex barrel .357 and .45, 24" barrels are both some metric number that is about 1/32" larger than 3/4". I have a Sharps SRC with a 20" round barrel .457 bore, that is tapered from about 1 1/8" at the receiver to 13/16" at the muzzle. My .38 special 1894 CBC Marlin has a 20" hex barrel that is the same across the flats as the '58.

My 1858's have a 11/16 hex barrel with the frame only about 1/32" larger than the barrel on the sides. Me thinks all of the 45 barrels but possibly Marlin (I don't have a .45 available to check) are going to be to big to look good on the frame, not counting how heavy 24" of barrel is going to be on a pistol, even with a butt stock. If 20" was good enough for a short rifle shouldn't it be sufficient for a revolving carbine? A man might develop an arm like Pop-eye from trying to handle it one armed.

Forgive the crude measurements as my calipers are in the shop and a tape measure was all I had handy.
Sorry for butting in but I thought the measurements might be useful.
Rolling Stone

Flint · February 02, 2010, 10:33:22 PM

One does not take a barrel off the shelf and just screw it in... The barrel being fitted would be turned (or the flats milled) to the diameter you want, which would be the same as the original, so the cylinder pin will still fit under it, and either left octagonal or made round somewhere past the loading lever. The weight difference betaween a 24 or 26 inch barrel compared to the 18 inch barrel on a Remington icarbine s almost not noticable. I know, I built one years ago from a Navy Arms revolver before Uberti ever made the Carbine.

Dusty Morningwood · February 04, 2010, 02:02:12 PM

My thought was to get a barrel and have a smith mill it down to the dimensional specs of an original. Just need a long enough barrel to give the smith something to thread, leaving me with the length I want.

IE300 · November 23, 2011, 01:33:11 PM

Here's mine. An antique finish Uberti .44 C&B Carbine with a Kirst .22 Konverter installed (also have a Kirst unit in .45 ACP set up for this carbine). It's gated so I don't have to take it apart to reload, and has a spring loaded ejector installed. I thinned the ejector rod which allows it to be used for either .22 or .45 ACP. The scope I had laying around for a while, but just installed it on this carbine. I had been thinking about doing that for a while, but just did it yesterday. Haven't sighted it in yet, but I think it should work fine.

Triggersmith · January 31, 2013, 11:02:34 AM

in case I missed an answer to your barrel problem. Track of the Wolf sells a long 45LC octagon barrel. All you have to to is thread the stub for what ever gun you have, I used one on my Walker revolving carbine. The stub end is appox 1 inch and is a bit wide for a pistol that's why I went with 18 inch. Your choice.
Triggersmith